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Old 04-08-2014, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Which those photos like the other ones are nothing more than cherry picking.
Duh. That was the point. But in reality, that is how the trains look during rush hour in those cities on most days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
The point for making this is that there needs to be options for those to commute, especially the larger the city. Could you imagine how bad NYC would be if everyone drove? And that isn't even addressing the other issue, where would they all park?
Dallas and Atlanta already have options.

The question is whether the urban form many urbanists push for (SF, DC, Boston, etc.) really leads to shorter commute times. There's no data that suggests that at all. The cities with the less traditionally urban forms tend to have shorter commute times. So maybe people wouldn't want their city to become more like Boston if it meant their average commute time would rise by 10 or 15%. It's food for thought, don't you think?

You can make several arguments in favor of mass transit. The conservation of time argument, however, is a weak one.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Duh. That was the point. But in reality, that is how the trains look during rush hour in those cities on most days.



Dallas and Atlanta already have options.

The question is whether the urban form many urbanists push for (SF, DC, Boston, etc.) really leads to shorter commute times. There's no data that suggests that at all. The cities with the less traditionally urban forms tend to have shorter commute times. So maybe people wouldn't want their city to become more like Boston if it meant their average commute time would rise by 10 or 15%. It's food for thought, don't you think?

You can make several arguments in favor of mass transit. The conservation of time argument, however, is a weak one.
I can't speak for other urbanists, but I push for the Portland model. That seems to be more a happy medium for everyone.

Actually time is a valid argument, standing or sitting on transit is much different than driving a vehicle. One is an engaged activity while the other is more passive in a sense. Another factor with time is consistency, I can get my transit schedule down to the minute and have an identical commute everyday, while driving I would be at the mercy of other drivers not to do something stupid and cause a traffic jam. Though there are times when transit goes down or is delayed so nothing is perfect in life.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Though there are times when transit goes down or is delayed so nothing is perfect in life.
Exactly. So why even bring up driving delays?
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Actually time is a valid argument, standing or sitting on transit is much different than driving a vehicle. One is an engaged activity while the other is more passive in a sense. Another factor with time is consistency, I can get my transit schedule down to the minute and have an identical commute everyday, while driving I would be at the mercy of other drivers not to do something stupid and cause a traffic jam. Though there are times when transit goes down or is delayed so nothing is perfect in life.
Since when is standing on transit passive? You have to grip and blance to keep from getting tossed about by the train or bus.

For the CTA, the buses are at the mercy of other drivers too. Not to mention variable passenger load and unload times. They bunch up and can get delayed. The trains also get problems(i.e. "This train will run express"(hopefully not into an stair case...)). In fact if you use transit you usually have to allot more time for possible delays than with driving. Metra is the only one know for being on-time really but they are limited.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Exactly. So why even bring up driving delays?
Because the chance of a driver delay is much greater than a transit delay. I can count on one hand the amount of times transit has been an issue for commuting this past year for me, but traffic accidents are common on that same commute if I were to drive.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Because the chance of a driver delay is much greater than a transit delay. I can count on one hand the amount of times transit has been an issue for commuting this past year for me, but traffic accidents are common on that same commute if I were to drive.
Do you use an bus or just rail? How much time between trains on said rail line?
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Because the chance of a driver delay is much greater than a transit delay. I can count on one hand the amount of times transit has been an issue for commuting this past year for me, but traffic accidents are common on that same commute if I were to drive.
Do you ever cite anything that's not self-referential?
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Originally Posted by chirack View Post
Since when is standing on transit passive? You have to grip and blance to keep from getting tossed about by the train or bus.

For the CTA, the buses are at the mercy of other drivers too. Not to mention variable passenger load and unload times. They bunch up and can get delayed. The trains also get problems(i.e. "This train will run express"(hopefully not into an stair case...)). In fact if you use transit you usually have to allot more time for possible delays than with driving. Metra is the only one know for being on-time really but they are limited.
Sorry, passive might not have been the best word, you aren't the one driving the train or bus like you are driving a car.

Yes, buses have to deal with the same traffic cars do which is why buses are inefficient but necessary for those unable to drive or wish to not drive, and are more cost effective than rail, but rail is the most efficient way to move people in and out of an employment center and doesn't suffer from daily delays (ideally, our aging rail system in our cities is often times behind on technology due to our lack of investment during the rise of the car.)
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:07 PM
 
2,942 posts, read 3,950,951 times
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Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Sorry, passive might not have been the best word, you aren't the one driving the train or bus like you are driving a car.

Yes, buses have to deal with the same traffic cars do which is why buses are inefficient but necessary for those unable to drive or wish to not drive, and are more cost effective than rail, but rail is the most efficient way to move people in and out of an employment center and doesn't suffer from daily delays (ideally, our aging rail system in our cities is often times behind on technology due to our lack of investment during the rise of the car.)
Wrong about doesn't suffer from delays. For commuter rail like Metra, there is a long period between trains like 30mins to an hour between trains and so delays don't usually build in the system.

For the EL, delay is much more a problem due to the fact that there are so many trains and often so little time between them.There is as little as about 7-8 mins between El trains, so any delay has the potential to build and the delays can be caused by overcrowding, bad equipment on the train, maintenance work on track(usually done outside of rush) and so on.
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
Do use an bus or just rail? How much time between trains on said rail line?
Just rail, though after Sandy I had to rely on the bus for a while. There were good days and bad days with the bus due to traffic. My commute to work is 45 minutes. Between trains? We have a more complicated commute than most, our first train it is a 10-12 minute walk to, which the train shows up a couple minutes later depending on how fast we initially walked. Our second train it takes us about 5 minutes to get from the surface down to the platform, then it is no more than a minute or two wait, then the third train it is about another 5-7 minute walk to the next train which we have to wait no more than a minute or two, and then there is another 10 minute walk to work.
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