U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-08-2014, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,273,936 times
Reputation: 11734

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Sure, commute times in NYC are much longer than Dallas, but Dallas has a metro population of 2.5 million compared to NYC's 20 million, so that is a bit apples to oranges.
I don't see what the size of NYC has to do with the length of time it takes for the average Manhattan commuter to arrive at work.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-08-2014, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,554,726 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I don't see what the size of NYC has to do with the length of time it takes for the average Manhattan commuter to arrive at work.
A lot actually, people here tend to have to commute much further due to the size of the metro to get to work. A city like Dallas can still have a centralized system and the commute times are going to be much shorter because people aren't coming from further distances out. Though I am mostly guessing when it comes to this due to the fact I have never had any interest in Texas cities or know anything about them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2014, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,273,936 times
Reputation: 11734
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
A lot actually, people here tend to have to commute much further due to the size of the metro to get to work. A city like Dallas can still have a centralized system and the commute times are going to be much shorter because people aren't coming from further distances out. Though I am mostly guessing when it comes to this due to the fact I have never had any interest in Texas cities or know anything about them.
Manhattan is 22 sq. miles. And most residents of Manhattan work in Manhattan. Dallas, on the other hand, is 340 sq. miles.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2014, 01:20 PM
 
2,825 posts, read 3,354,562 times
Reputation: 3031
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
One would also think that the denser, walkable cities would have many more people with short commutes due to high rates of walking, transit ridership and cycling. Here is the number and percentage of commuters who need less than 15 minutes to get to work.

New York - 370,335 (10.3%)
Los Angeles - 287,452 (17.4%)
Houston - 209,412 (22.3%)
Chicago - 160,937 (13.8%)
Dallas - 123,233 (22.3%)
Philadelphia - 84,892 (14.6%)
San Francisco - 52,976 (12.7%)
Boston - 51,200 (16.2%)
Atlanta - 42,212 (22.3%)
Washington, DC - 41,201 (13.2%)
Miami - 30,018 (17.42%)

Atlanta actually has more people with "mini" commutes than DC. There are more people who get to work in less than 5 minutes in Atlanta than there are in DC. Also, who would have figured that sprawling Houston and Dallas would have so many more people with short commutes than Philadelphia?
Yup, and the people living in cities that the urbanistas deride as "sprawl" also get to live in a place they can enjoy instead of being crammed together like hamsters with zero personal space. There's nothing magical about living ten minutes from work when the abode is an efficiency with a hot plate that half or more of your salary is spent on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2014, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,273,936 times
Reputation: 11734
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
Yup, and the people living in cities that the urbanistas deride as "sprawl" also get to live in a place they can enjoy instead of being crammed together like hamsters with zero personal space. There's nothing magical about living ten minutes from work when the abode is an efficiency with a hot plate that half or more of your salary is spent on.
There are advantages to living in dense, urban cities. Getting to work more quickly than people living in more sprawly, car-oriented cities is not one of them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2014, 01:30 PM
 
1,998 posts, read 2,936,249 times
Reputation: 2150
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
Yup, and the people living in cities that the urbanistas deride as "sprawl" also get to live in a place they can enjoy instead of being crammed together like hamsters with zero personal space. There's nothing magical about living ten minutes from work when the abode is an efficiency with a hot plate that half or more of your salary is spent on.
If living in Manhattan is so terrible, why are so many people willing to pay top dollar to live there? Why is the land value so much higher than basically anywhere else in the country?

The answer is that people have different preferences, and what seems like a terrible lifestyle to you is great for others.

You're really deluding yourself if you think that people in dense cities like NYC don't enjoy living there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2014, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,554,726 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee34278581
Manhattan is 22 sq. miles. And most residents of Manhattan work in Manhattan. Dallas, on the other hand, is 340 sq. miles.
Then we are talking about two different things, I was talking about metro sizes. Manhattan is an employment center with people coming in from all over the metro for work.

Now if you want to talk about just Manhattan, commute times for anyone south of Upper East Side and Upper West Side is less than 30 minutes and even Upper Manhattan has an average commute time of 40 minutes. So commuting for much of Manhattan takes about 20-30 minutes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2014, 01:32 PM
 
2,825 posts, read 3,354,562 times
Reputation: 3031
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
There are advantages to living in dense, urban cities. Getting to work more quickly than people living in more sprawly, car-oriented cities is not one of them.
Especially since that objective isn't achieved.
I'd add:
- living like a hamster isn't an advantage.
- living in a tiny abode due to cost isn't an advantage
- spending a large chunk of your income on a tiny abode isn't an advantage
- having shopping within walking distance, well maybe but there's no place to put it in your tiny abode
- crime stats usually aren't better
- school districts typically aren't better

Maybe it's good for those that like to play choo-choo. Maybe that's why some people use transit - cause it certainly isn't for the reasons above.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2014, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,554,726 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by stateofnature View Post
If living in Manhattan is so terrible, why are so many people willing to pay top dollar to live there? Why is the land value so much higher than basically anywhere else in the country?

The answer is that people have different preferences, and what seems like a terrible lifestyle to you is great for others.

You're really deluding yourself if you think that people in dense cities like NYC don't enjoy living there.
Heck, if I could afford a nice apartment in Manhattan, though I would prefer Brooklyn, I would love it too, but too many people want to live in Manhattan so I can't afford it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2014, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,554,726 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
Especially since that objective isn't achieved.
I'd add:
- living like a hamster isn't an advantage.
- living in a tiny abode due to cost isn't an advantage
- spending a large chunk of your income on a tiny abode isn't an advantage
- having shopping within walking distance, well maybe but there's no place to put it in your tiny abode
- crime stats usually aren't better
- school districts typically aren't better

Maybe it's good for those that like to play choo-choo. Maybe that's why some people use transit - cause it certainly isn't for the reasons above.
Yet millions upon millions of Americans live in dense cities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top