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Old 04-14-2014, 04:26 AM
 
4,832 posts, read 10,885,958 times
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Do we really think that JcPenney's and Sear's are going to hold on for much longer? Sear's maybe, but JcPenney's is losing to Macy's and Dillards. And most malls won't be able survive if they lose more department stores.

I wouldn't be surprised if JcPenney's folds or mass closes many stores. Many of the middle class and working class cities I know of have more ppl prefer shopping at cheaper strip malls with Wal-Mart, Target, Ross, etc than enclosed mall with dept stores and speciality stores.

Malls seem to be becoming a shopping amenity for wealthier communities, especially outlet malls and lifestyle centers that meet their niche.

I think it's important cities have a healthy mix of suburban and urban shopping. Cities need to have diversity and have a little bit of everything, so to raise competition and get every consumer.

Ask for myself, living in a quiet suburban neighborhood is a must and i want the suburban works. Now, I'm ok if where I live has a downtown. I have friends who love downtowns and don't like suburbia. We equally hang out in each.

I also hear that enclosed malls with movie theaters are attracting the wrong crowd into enclosed malls. This only further detracts consumers to come to enclosed malls in working class communities, and if you notice, it's usually working class communities that have enclosed malls with movie theaters inside the mall.
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Old 04-14-2014, 07:29 AM
 
1,709 posts, read 1,673,134 times
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I think the suburban mall as we know it is a dying (or at least shrinking) trend. It's becoming harder and harder for the working and middle class to afford higher-end items at the typical mall anchor stores (Macy's, JC Penney's, etc-Sears seems to be an exception here but is still failing because it's being poorly run). Also, the communities that used to support malls when they were built in the 50s, 60s, and 70s are now becoming older and are no longer interested in shopping at malls anymore, which is a big factor. That's the case at my local mall-everyone's too old to shop there now, so it closed.

Of course, this isn't necessarily good. While unlike you I prefer urbanity over suburbia, I strongly agree with you in that there should be a balance between urban and suburban shopping and living. Loss of malls will be a huge blow to that balance, relegating shopping to only strip malls for the suburbs.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,057 posts, read 16,063,174 times
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Not good.

Sears and JCP tend to be located in the marginal malls, which are exactly the ones that aren't doing very well. For example, in Sacramento there's a Sears at the old Florin Mall. That was already torn down and replaced with a Wal-Mart. There's another one at Arden Fair, which is doing fine but is kind of outclassed by Galleria and now Palladium (lifestyle center). With the K (aka Welfare) Street Mall closing that will provide some boost.
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,057 posts, read 16,063,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
I think the suburban mall as we know it is a dying (or at least shrinking) trend. It's becoming harder and harder for the working and middle class to afford higher-end items at the typical mall anchor stores (Macy's, JC Penney's, etc-Sears seems to be an exception here but is still failing because it's being poorly run). Also, the communities that used to support malls when they were built in the 50s, 60s, and 70s are now becoming older and are no longer interested in shopping at malls anymore, which is a big factor. That's the case at my local mall-everyone's too old to shop there now, so it closed.

Of course, this isn't necessarily good. While unlike you I prefer urbanity over suburbia, I strongly agree with you in that there should be a balance between urban and suburban shopping and living. Loss of malls will be a huge blow to that balance, relegating shopping to only strip malls for the suburbs.
It does depend.

In Sacramento, it's the urban malls that are dead or dying. Florin was really a suburban mall and it looks like a lot of the places where suburban malls are dead and dying. The middle class is mostly gone from that area, so now it's a Wal-Mart/stripmall. K Street has a similar thing.

As a region, however, Sacramento is actually doing very well with lots of growth and at least somewhat strong economy. It's nothing compared to the Bay Area, but if you get up to the middle-class areas, it's actually pretty strong. So you have Galleria expanding, Arden doing well, the new Palladium (outdoor lifestyle center mall rather than enclosed) is slowly filling up although it's still about half empty. Definitely a slow start, but the half that's leased is actually pretty busy.

Sacramento is a tougher sell. The big chance for Sacramento really was the Railyards, but they're just doing the same thing there. The new developer has cut the amount of housing and increased the retail. That's not really what Sacramento needs. It needs a good chunk of housing that's reasonably priced, but that isn't the delusion that Sacramento has of itself. They keep building these luxury condos and apartments for the well-heeled and then struggling to rent them out since they're 50% more than the luxury "resort-style" apartments that are in Natomas, 10 minutes outside downtown, or double the standard apartment. The people with the kind of discretionary income that electing to spend 50% to 100% more on an apartment aren't looking at high-crime areas with bad schools. They're off in houses in Roseville or Folsom. The malls in Roseville and Folsom aren't hurting.

Last edited by Malloric; 04-14-2014 at 10:14 AM..
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Old 04-14-2014, 12:22 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,880,155 times
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JC Penny's and Sear's just are dying because of they basically never changed. The same thing happened to downtown areas all across the country. Its now effecting malls because now days people do not want to spend a Saturday walking around to buy one item like in the past. Its also why online shopping is becoming more popular. Now days window shopping is hardly a thing that people do for entertainment like the past. Its not a lack of money has just look at explosion of eating places .In past few middle class family eat out on any regular basis. Their buying happens often involved saving for a house;or vacation. In 60's a side by side refrigerator cost like 1200 dollars ;so it required saving since that was a sold middle income months salary. I live in more rural area and hardly ever go to urban area to shop as all the best shopping is outside near burbs in most places.
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:04 PM
 
1,110 posts, read 907,693 times
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Malls have been dying for quite a while now. 15% of the ones open today will be closed in 10 years. Saks, Sears, and JCPenney all decided to change too late. But outlet malls are actually doing pretty well because of better pricing and perceived quality. Big-name department stores have been moving into outlet malls for a while, like Nordstrom with Nordstrom Rack. Retailers are actually achieving higher sales per square foot at outlet malls and the trend among consumers is to actually spend more at outlets. More retailers are going to a smaller store size in order to stay profitable, even Target (CityTarget) and Walmart. Traditional malls will die and outlet malls will be the reigning form until online retailers can find a way to allow people to try on clothes virtually and get the proper fit.
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:37 PM
 
4,832 posts, read 10,885,958 times
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Look at these malls:

Shops at Summerlin in a suburb of Las Vegas
Shops at Summerlin Retailers

Tejon Ranch in a pitstop outside of Santa Clarita and Bakersfield
Tejon Outlets

Bakersfield and Santa Clarita already have enclosed malls. Both areas have people with high income living in affordable housing areas. The locations for both are great.

Notice you never hear of JcPenney's or Sear's opening up these days.

I'm pretty sure that this mall is going to go bankrupt soon, just waiting for the JcPenney's to go under:
http://www.thepromenadeshopsatorchar...rectoryMap.pdf
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:58 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,981 posts, read 102,540,351 times
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Sears is still good for tools and appliances. They weren't that good for other stuff, ever, really. We have a fairly new Sears (5 yrs maybe) in one of those big, outdoor malls nearby.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,698 posts, read 8,484,166 times
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If the market for a midpriced department store still exists in a community, another chain will come in and fill it, if not then it's the demographic changes that killed it and that can't be helped. If those companies go under, I could see some nimble, foreign chains with a fresher face entering the market to try and fill the vacuum, like Simons or Carrefour.
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:16 PM
 
4,832 posts, read 10,885,958 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
If the market for a midpriced department store still exists in a community, another chain will come in and fill it, if not then it's the demographic changes that killed it and that can't be helped. If those companies go under, I could see some nimble, foreign chains with a fresher face entering the market to try and fill the vacuum, like Simons or Carrefour.
I don't think anything could replace Sear's or JcPenney's.

This forum ppl debate which will go first:

Who Will Go First: Sears, JC Penny, or Macy's

I think more people r saying Sear's will. But that blows my mind because Sear's owns Kmart and OSH. Will both of those go under too?

LOL, and catch this commercial:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...nney-are-dying


"Wait, the movie theater is on the other side," the passenger says.

"But Sears always has parking!" the driver responds.

Maybe JcPenney's can live if Sear's dies? Or maybe both r gonna die. Most malls in America have both those retailers. Lose both, then some working class and middle class communities will begin to lose their malls. Maybe their downtowns will come back?

Last edited by the city; 04-14-2014 at 10:32 PM..
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