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Old 05-02-2014, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,312 posts, read 26,335,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Just to throw it out there, how would you view these communities/neighborhoods in terms of walkability? I'm only asking due to the ways posters view the term and the various degrees. I guess you can do it on a scale of 1-10.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=matty...32.46,,0,10.32

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=liver...,319.4,,0,0.97

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=de+wi...,45.83,,0,8.73

All are suburbs as well.
A 1, 3 and a 1.

They are all "walkable" in the sense that I'm physically capable of leaving my house and walking to a given destination. But the pedestrian infrastructure in the first and the third views is basically non-existent. The second is better, as it appears to be a built a bit more densely, but things still seem spread out away from the commercial center. If I had to choose among the three, and walkability was what I truly valued, then I'd clearly choose the second view.

But I don't really think of walkability in terms of individual neighborhoods. I look at how much of the city is built continuously/contiguously at human scale.
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
32,432 posts, read 59,997,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I don't want to get into a city/suburb definition debate, but where you live has little in common with most newer suburbs
We don't need to get into any kind of debate at all. We just need to acknowledge that not all suburbs evolved in the same way. There may be some commonalities - it's safe to say that density is generally lower than in urban development - but those commonalities aren't as numerous as some people seem to think they are.

Even my mom's street, built up in the late 50s and early 60s, is four or five blocks from the town's business district. My sister's really suburban development of four-bedroom 1960s colonial houses is only a 15-minute walk in three directionsfrom numerous grocery stores and shopping centers - cul de sacs, sidewalks, crosswalks, playgrounds, elementary schools, and the whole nine yards.

You can't make blanket statements about suburbs. You just can't.
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,171 posts, read 29,757,248 times
Reputation: 26681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
[Ronald Reagan] There you go again ... [/Ronald Reagan]

You need to be specific about what kind of suburb you're vilifying at the moment, because people can and do walk in my suburb, and in every other suburb I've ever lived in, and they can and do walk around in the residential neighborhoods.

If I'm to walk to the produce market a few blocks away, for instance - or to the diner or the donut place or the barbecue restaurant or the convenience store or my dentist or the dry cleaners or the grocery store or the zoo or the state driver's license place or the beauty parlor or the guy who fixes my computer or the thrift shop or the liquor store or the butcher shop - how the hell do I get there if I don't walk through the residential neighborhood first?
IT depends on the the neighborhood and layout. Where I grew up in my teens, the only people who walked anywhere were people under 10. But the winding streets made all of the walks really long. Many people drove to the pool (it was about 3/4 of a mile from my place), we usually rode our bikes.

It was a new subdivision, but they didn't put in sidewalks until the phase 3 section. And that was only in a small part of the neighborhood.

Let's say you walked to the "front gate." That was about 1 mile from my home. But it was off a 2 lane highway with 45mph speeds, no shoulder. So no one walked there either.

People rarely walked around the neighborhood (I don't remember anyone with a dog). And the distances were too far anyway. Sure the streets were "quiet." But it wasn't people scaled, lots were large and most people hardly had any front landscaping so it was really boring to walk around. And there was nowhere to walk to besides the clubhouse.

Here is what it looks like now (about 20 years after I moved away, it was built in the early to mid 1990s):
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.6390...9m42Y04ptQ!2e0

(No I didn't pick my block, I picked a nearby one).

Most of the neighborhoods in town looked just like this, with varying amounts of trees. There were easily half a dozen similar ones in the 4 mile radius, with slightly different look and feels, and similar street layouts.

Western "burbs" are very different from Southern one. There are a million of places just like this all over GA, NC, SC, TN, FL etc.

Let's contrast this with the San Jose neighborhood I grew up in. (circa 1970s)
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.2313...i_Oj7meZZw!2e0

It is still suburban, but more friendly for walking.
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Old 05-02-2014, 10:18 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,120,818 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
We don't need to get into any kind of debate at all. We just need to acknowledge that not all suburbs evolved in the same way. There may be some commonalities - it's safe to say that density is generally lower than in urban development - but those commonalities aren't as numerous as some people seem to think they are.

Even my mom's street, built up in the late 50s and early 60s, is four or five blocks from the town's business district. My sister's really suburban development of four-bedroom 1960s colonial houses is only a 15-minute walk in three directionsfrom numerous grocery stores and shopping centers - cul de sacs, sidewalks, crosswalks, playgrounds, elementary schools, and the whole nine yards.
My point was that higher density community that was built almost 100 years is going to be rather different than newer communities. Sure, in many newer communities there are things in walking distance (the first neighborhood I grew up in is similar to what you describe your sister's neighborhood, actually a bit closer to some businesses) but it's not usually to the same scale as a higher density area. Sure they're both suburbs in the sense outside the principal city, but so what?

Perhaps because I'm familiar with some rather dense older neighborhoods the difference seems larger to me. Long Island has neighborhoods people here would consider "walkable", but the locals would compare it mostly to New York City. "Most people drive here!" it's not a walking neighborhood.
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Old 05-02-2014, 10:19 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,120,818 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
A 1, 3 and a 1.
And what about my downstate NY views?
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:48 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,120,818 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I do agree that women walking alone at night is a safety issue.
Seen on the NYC forum referring to a bad area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by masonofcity View Post
Im a 23 year old male so walking at night is not necessarily my biggest fear.
response:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mc33433 View Post
It will be.
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:18 PM
 
104 posts, read 137,648 times
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Yeah, #1 and #3 are pretty awful but I kinda like Liverpool, NY. Reminds me of Steveston in British Columbia (where "Once Upon a Time" shoots all their Storybrooke scenes). Although things may be farther apart, it seems the pleasantness of the walk would make up for that.
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 13,147,147 times
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FWIW I live in a very walkable suburb. They definitely exist.
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Old 05-02-2014, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,698 posts, read 23,726,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
You need to get out more if you've observed no one walking in a suburb.

Nothing odd about them. In my neighborhood, it's rare to see no one on the sidewalks during the day.

No. You walk when all those things I mentioned are within five or six blocks of your house. Even if you're walking through five or six residential blocks to get there.

Again, you need to get out more. Not all suburbs are "spread out". All those places I mentioned are clustered within two or three blocks of one another, and four or five blocks from my house.


That's why I'm saying - and what some people refuse to believe - that not all suburbs are alike. Not even those built after 1970. Not every suburban neighborhood is a cul-de-sac built in a disconnected cornfield attached only to a busy six-lane street.

With no sidewalks.

Generalizations about suburbs - or about anything, really - make for a poor argument.
You are exactly right. I am moving to a Cleveland suburb, Cleveland Heights, to a bustling neighborhood that has a supermarket, bus service, restaurants, a bookstore, little ma and pa shops, lots of grass and trees and everything my city neighborhood in Portland OR where I live now has to offer. People who lump all suburbs into one mold are obviously not educated in urban planning which also includes the various suburban areas that surround urban areas.
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:27 AM
 
56,891 posts, read 81,238,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rozenn View Post
Only #3 and 5 are built at a human scale and aimed at pedestrians, so they would rank first. I think #6 would rank third, the traffic looks heavy on the main boulevard but the two "buffer lanes" on each side would help isolate from traffic. Shops are aimed at pedestrians. Though if I had nothing to do on the boulevard itslef, I'd try toavoid it. At least, none of the suburban ones lack pedestrian infrastructure, so it would depend on the intensity of motor traffic. I wouldn't mind walking along the 2-lane road in example #2, but it looks quite impractical given the lack of crosswalks, at least when traffic is high enough that there aren't enough breaks. #1 and 4 look the least pedestrian-friendly. Like #2, all the shops are better reached by car, but the heavy traffic would be an additional annoyance. In places, they put a grass strip to isolated the sidewalk from the roadway. Making it wider and planting some shrubs here and there would make it more agreeable to walk along, though still not pedestrian-friendly. I imagine even nearby residents shop there by car.
I totally agree. With NY communities, in general, villages generally have a nice walkable Downtown, regardless of the density outside of it. It may still be walkable outside of that area, but there will still be an infrastructure suitable for walkability. That's why the third streetview of Huntington didn't surprise me, knowing how villages are set up in many cases in the state. Liverpool is a village as well.
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