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Old 05-16-2014, 01:39 AM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
2,958 posts, read 3,817,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowsnow View Post
To me walkable means I can easily do most of my day to day errands and shopping on foot if I choose. Most of what I need is within a couple miles.
Yes, but say you have an urban area where every street is made up of 7-lane streets. That means that within 10 city blocks there will be 9 streets between them, or 63 vehicle lanes. That's roughly 6-7 freeways that the pedestrian crosses to walk down 10 city blocks. That is poor planning if the intention was to create "walkable" city blocks.

Just shrinking those streets to 4-lanes (and making the traffic lanes narrower) would effectively cut the distance pedestrians have to cross by half and would bring city blocks closer together, thereby creating more walkable blocks. All those traffic lanes just adds distance to walkers and incentives driving over walking/biking.

Unfortunately, once city planners have spaced city blocks so far away like that, there's little that can be done to fix it. It's essentially "dead space" from a pedestrian's POV that will do nothing but discourage walking.
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
and I do see plenty of cars in that google link but no pedestrians.
You've never been to Hollywood Boulevard?
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Old 05-16-2014, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 13,105,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunjee View Post
You've never been to Hollywood Boulevard?
Seriously. There are always pedestrians on that street, from one end in East Hollywood to the other in Central Hollywood.

The whole crossing a handful of freeways to go 10 blocks is really strange logic. I don't know if many, if any urban area with all streets at 7 lanes. And that street is not 7 lanes - in fact having curbside parking makes a street more pedestrian-friendly.
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Old 05-16-2014, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,258 posts, read 26,226,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatsbyGatz View Post
Uh... that is not pedestrian-scaled. That is a 7-lane street. In some places, they call that a highway or freeway.

Go look at streets in Tokyo for pedestrian-scaled streets.
Is it Paris? No. But it's more pedestrian-scaled (which were my exact words) compared to many streets in American cities. For the most part, there are no building setbacks. The store entrances are all street facing. And the streetwall provides for some sense of enclosure. I don't view Hollywood Boulevard as being auto-scaled simply because the street is not the width of a sidewalk.

Here's 7 to 8 lanes of auto traffic. Is this pedestrian scaled?

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Champ...12,292.47,,0,0
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Old 05-16-2014, 12:27 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,987 posts, read 41,937,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Here's 7 to 8 lanes of auto traffic. Is this pedestrian scaled?

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Champ...12,292.47,,0,0
Walkable, but less pedestrian scaled than some city streets.

I actually wasn't a fan of the street width of Champs-Élysées, it felt too noisy and not very cozy. Though, I was there when I was 13. The very wide sidewalks look like they would make the wide street less of an issue, though I'd still prefer the narrower commercial streets of Paris, something like this looks ideal:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Champ...,,0,-1.65&z=16

[looks a bit like a European version of West Village, Manhattan ] Speaking of Champs-Élysées, it's still far better than Queens Boulvard:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Queen...06.24,,0,-13.3

I jaywalked across Queens Blvd [narrower section though]!
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Old 05-16-2014, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,509,053 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
But it IS a seven lane street, and all seven are reserved for vehicle traffic. Those parking lanes are intended strictly for automobiles, not pedestrians or cyclists, so they do count as traffic lanes. A lane is a lane, whether it is meant for parked cars or moving cars. It's still a traffic lane (not meant for walking or cycling). and I do see plenty of cars in that google link but no pedestrians.
True, but often times parked cars are used as a buffer between the moving vehicles and the pedestrians. There is a big difference between walking past parked cars and walking next to traffic.
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Old 05-16-2014, 12:56 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,992 posts, read 102,554,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
True, but often times parked cars are used as a buffer between the moving vehicles and the pedestrians. There is a big difference between walking past parked cars and walking next to traffic.
I've finally found something I can agree with urbanlife78 on this forum! I was thinking the same thing; he said it better than I could have. A parked car angles out into the driving lane, too, so in general it's not going very fast.
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Old 05-16-2014, 01:10 PM
 
2,880 posts, read 4,615,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
[looks a bit like a European version of West Village, Manhattan ] Speaking of Champs-Élysées, it's still far better than Queens Boulvard:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Queen...06.24,,0,-13.3

I jaywalked across Queens Blvd [narrower section though]!
I never had a problem crossing there, but I'm used to L.A. Cars do zoom though. It's not so much watching prevailing traffic, it's when cars double parked or slowed on the right hide cars behind them, who tend to rocket out from behind them changing lanes. Especially at lights. Jaywalkers beware!
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Old 05-16-2014, 01:22 PM
 
4,023 posts, read 3,265,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
Seriously. There are always pedestrians on that street, from one end in East Hollywood to the other in Central Hollywood.

The whole crossing a handful of freeways to go 10 blocks is really strange logic. I don't know if many, if any urban area with all streets at 7 lanes. And that street is not 7 lanes - in fact having curbside parking makes a street more pedestrian-friendly.
There are some pedestrians in that google image, but very few relative to the number of cars. The ratio of cars to pedestrians is something like 10 to 1 (rough estimate going by the eye test). But I had to look hard to notice them. And most of those pedestrians aren't even really pedestrians. They drove to a store or an office building on Hollywood Blvd. and parked their car (along the street or in a parking garage or parking lot). Naturally once they arrive they have to actually walk from their car to the store. But that doesn't make them a pedestrian. A pedestrian is someone who has not utilized a private vehicle at all to arrive at their destination (or else all drivers could be considered pedestrians, making the term effectively meaningless).
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Old 05-16-2014, 01:52 PM
 
2,880 posts, read 4,615,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
There are some pedestrians in that google image, but very few relative to the number of cars. The ratio of cars to pedestrians is something like 10 to 1 (rough estimate going by the eye test). But I had to look hard to notice them. And most of those pedestrians aren't even really pedestrians. They drove to a store or an office building on Hollywood Blvd. and parked their car (along the street or in a parking garage or parking lot). Naturally once they arrive they have to actually walk from their car to the store. But that doesn't make them a pedestrian. A pedestrian is someone who has not utilized a private vehicle at all to arrive at their destination (or else all drivers could be considered pedestrians, making the term effectively meaningless).
I was in Hollywood a few days ago for a meeting. I took the Blue Line to the Red Line. The station was full of people disembarking at my stop on Vine, including many people I was meeting with. If you want to make your point, this is not the example. Particularly with Google View as you're not really a pedestrian yourself.
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