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Old 05-16-2014, 03:16 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,008 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064

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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
**Males and females have different commuting habits. Male commuters are significantly more likely to bike to work, more likely to walk to work, and less likely to drive alone than female commuters.**

I was referring to this, most people don't live within walking distance of their work, but they do live within biking distance of their work.
Thanks for clarifying. There are some details in that study about how far people live from work.
**The average one-way commute for survey respondents was 13.95 miles, with 25% having a commute of 5 miles or less. . . . Commuter age has a strong effect on mode choice. Biking and walking, the most active transportation modes, decrease with age. Driving alone peaks when commuters are in their 30s and declines as commuters get older. Transit use increases with age. . . . Commuters who walk have the shortest
commute and commuters who vanpool have the longest commute. Also, those who drive alone have a shorter commute than those who use transit.
**

Average length of walk is 1.4 mi. one way. Average length of bike is 4.7 mi. one way.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 05-16-2014 at 03:50 PM..
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Old 05-16-2014, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
32,378 posts, read 59,846,787 times
Reputation: 54025
Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
most of those pedestrians aren't even really pedestrians. They drove to a store or an office building on Hollywood Blvd. and parked their car (along the street or in a parking garage or parking lot). Naturally once they arrive they have to actually walk from their car to the store. But that doesn't make them a pedestrian. A pedestrian is someone who has not utilized a private vehicle at all to arrive at their destination (or else all drivers could be considered pedestrians, making the term effectively meaningless).
OK, this borders on the most ridiculous post I've read all year.

Someone walking down the street isn't really a pedestrian?

Oh, that's rich.

Pedestrians all use the same sidewalks and crosswalks no matter how they arrived at their particular spot on the pavement at any given time.

But thanks for the laugh.
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Old 05-16-2014, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,247,479 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I actually wasn't a fan of the street width of Champs-Élysées, it felt too noisy and not very cozy. Though, I was there when I was 13. The very wide sidewalks look like they would make the wide street less of an issue, though I'd still prefer the narrower commercial streets of Paris
I don't find it to be much of an issue. The sidewalks are so wide and the trees, lampposts and other objects provide sufficient buffering from traffic. There's a sense of protection I feel as a pedestrian on the Champs that I don't feel on Queens Boulevard.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Champ...12,316.54,,1,0

I don't think a street really has to be one lane in each direction to have good pedestrian design elements. I mean, it's hard to say that the Champs is "auto-scaled" when it's had essentially the same form for more than 150 years. Paving a street and allowing cars to run down it does not automatically make the urban form auto-scaled. When I say "auto-scale," I'm talking about an urban form that was ostensibly designed around the automobile (i.e., parking lots, drive thrus, gas stations, strip malls, buildings with no street-facing entrances, setbacks, distances between structures, etc).


Seeing Paris - The Champs-Elysees, 1920s - YouTube

Last edited by BajanYankee; 05-16-2014 at 04:02 PM..
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Old 05-16-2014, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,528,523 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Also, those who drive alone have a shorter commute than those who use transit.[/i]**

Average length of walk is 1.4 mi. one way. Average length of bike is 4.7 mi. one way.
That's a weird one I would have guessed people driving alone would have averaged a longer distance, but it points out an interesting thing with Denver, that it's transit is attractive to use for those that live further out in the metro, which is good that it is having a positive effect on people living further out. That probably could lead into what is happening around those stations that are further out.

I use to walk to work and it was about a mile each way, I couldn't imagine walking any further than 1.5mi without feeling like there has to be a better way to commute. 5 miles for biking is very realistic, especially seeing many people live within 5 miles of where they work.
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Old 05-16-2014, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,247,479 times
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Here's a picture of the Champs before they widened its sidewalks in 1994. Those inner lanes looked absolutely pointless. And awkard. But as you can see, the sidewalks were still full of pedestrians. There were still sidewalk cafes and restaurants then just as there are today.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dMY877oWfl...0/PICT0044.JPG

This looks much nicer.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ia_Commons.jpg

Now I don't think most cities could do what Paris did by merely widening the sidewalks. Widening the sidewalks on a street where the built environment was built with the car in mind isn't really accomplishing anything.
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Old 05-16-2014, 04:04 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,979,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Commuters who walk have the shortest
commute and commuters who vanpool have the longest commute. Also, those who drive alone have a shorter commute than those who use transit.[/i]**

Average length of walk is 1.4 mi. one way. Average length of bike is 4.7 mi. one way.
Did this mean shortest time-wise or shortest distance-wise?
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Old 05-16-2014, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 13,113,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
OK, this borders on the most ridiculous post I've read all year.

Someone walking down the street isn't really a pedestrian?

Oh, that's rich.

Pedestrians all use the same sidewalks and crosswalks no matter how they arrived at their particular spot on the pavement at any given time.

But thanks for the laugh.
And how does that poster know how those pedestrians arrived in the neighborhood? Is there a button on Google you can push that shows how each person in the streetview arrived at their location? I know it is a stretch to imagine this - but maybe those pedestrians live in the densely populated neighborhoods around the main street - you know, like I did for years. Is the poster aware there is a heavily-used subway station not a quarter mile from that streetview? Is it a huge stretch to imagine the pedestrians arrived via the Red Line?

Besides there are at least a half dozen people waiting for buses in the streetview...
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Old 05-16-2014, 04:13 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,008 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
That's a weird one I would have guessed people driving alone would have averaged a longer distance, but it points out an interesting thing with Denver, that it's transit is attractive to use for those that live further out in the metro, which is good that it is having a positive effect on people living further out. That probably could lead into what is happening around those stations that are further out.

I use to walk to work and it was about a mile each way, I couldn't imagine walking any further than 1.5mi without feeling like there has to be a better way to commute. 5 miles for biking is very realistic, especially seeing many people live within 5 miles of where they work.
Just goes to show you shouldn't rely on "feelings". A good object lesson.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Did this mean shortest time-wise or shortest distance-wise?
Distance. You could read the article; it's not long. My computer seems to have closed it down, or I'd quote it for you.
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Old 05-16-2014, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
2,959 posts, read 3,820,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I don't find it to be much of an issue. The sidewalks are so wide and the trees, lampposts and other objects provide sufficient buffering from traffic. There's a sense of protection I feel as a pedestrian on the Champs that I don't feel on Queens Boulevard.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Champ...12,316.54,,1,0

I don't think a street really has to be one lane in each direction to have good pedestrian design elements. I mean, it's hard to say that the Champs is "auto-scaled" when it's had essentially the same form for more than 150 years. Paving a street and allowing cars to run down it does not automatically make the urban form auto-scaled. When I say "auto-scale," I'm talking about an urban form that was ostensibly designed around the automobile (i.e., parking lots, drive thrus, gas stations, strip malls, buildings with no street-facing entrances, etc).
Champs is an exception rather than the rule. Paris is highly dense and also has an astronomical amount of tourists walking the streets daily. Also, Champs is a world-renowned place so that itself will attract people to walk it. Therefore, DESPITE the fact that Champs is a huge highway full of cars, there are many pedestrians. Hollywood BLVD is a similar case; it is a famous street with many tourist attractions along it, so obviously there will be pedestrians. These are exceptions. Your average wide street offers no benefits to promoting walkers; it simply makes walkers walk farther. When a city has too many wide streets, if you account for all the space wasted for vehicular traffic, you lose land that could go to be developed upon. So in general, when designing a city and laying down city blocks, the goal is to make streets only as wide as is necessary for proper transportation because streets theoretically are a waste of space.
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Old 05-16-2014, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,247,479 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatsbyGatz View Post
Champs is an exception rather than the rule. Paris is highly dense and also has an astronomical amount of tourists walking the streets daily. Also, Champs is a world-renowned place so that itself will attract people to walk it. Therefore, DESPITE the fact that Champs is a huge highway full of cars, there are many pedestrians. Hollywood BLVD is a similar case; it is a famous street with many tourist attractions along it, so obviously there will be pedestrians. These are exceptions. Your average wide street offers no benefits to promoting walkers; it simply makes walkers walk farther. When a city has too many wide streets, if you account for all the space wasted for vehicular traffic, you lose land that could go to be developed upon. So in general, when designing a city and laying down city blocks, the goal is to make streets only as wide as is necessary for proper transportation because streets theoretically are a waste of space.
This has nothing to do with the design elements of the street. People were calling it "auto-scaled," but that makes no sense to me as the basic form of the built environment has been largely unaltered since the 19th Century.

The problem that most American cities have when it comes to walkability, imo, is not street width. Absent a handful of super arterials, most streets aren't really much wider than Fifth Avenue. The problem is that most of the stuff on the street is built around cars. Gas stations and parking lots only exist because of cars.

A secondary issue is block length (though I don't think that's much of a problem in most American urban cores).
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