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Old 10-05-2014, 01:26 PM
 
2,493 posts, read 2,196,468 times
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Well this thread topic has turned from "walking" to "parking".
As an auto-centric country we have a rather warped view of our "right" to parking access.

Most households in auto centric locations have a 2-3 car garage plus room for another 2-3 cars in the driveway plus perhaps 2-3 more in street parking in front of their home. Assuming two employed adults they also have access to two work parking places that might sit empty for 128 hours per week.
Their high school age kids expect parking on campus even though they are only in class maybe 30 hours per week. They expect available parking at the library, the PO and at any other public spaces such as parks or rec centers.

On top of all these available spaces they expect every single business to have an empty spot if and when they show up. If they work 5 miles from a very popular (and walkable) downtown, they whine if there is not an available space so they can drive 10 miles to lunch.

It seems in many areas there could be as many as 6 or more parking spaces for every car/driver.
Makes me wonder about our priorities!
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Old 10-05-2014, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,550,732 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
does it really take half hour to park? I can find free parking in the Upper West Side of Manhattan faster than that. What about the public garages?
I think there is some exaggerating going on here when it comes to finding parking.
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Old 10-05-2014, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,550,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddyline View Post
Well this thread topic has turned from "walking" to "parking".
As an auto-centric country we have a rather warped view of our "right" to parking access.

Most households in auto centric locations have a 2-3 car garage plus room for another 2-3 cars in the driveway plus perhaps 2-3 more in street parking in front of their home. Assuming two employed adults they also have access to two work parking places that might sit empty for 128 hours per week.
Their high school age kids expect parking on campus even though they are only in class maybe 30 hours per week. They expect available parking at the library, the PO and at any other public spaces such as parks or rec centers.

On top of all these available spaces they expect every single business to have an empty spot if and when they show up. If they work 5 miles from a very popular (and walkable) downtown, they whine if there is not an available space so they can drive 10 miles to lunch.

It seems in many areas there could be as many as 6 or more parking spaces for every car/driver.
Makes me wonder about our priorities!
This tends to happen when we talk about walkable communities because some car centric people think every business needs to provide ample parking for them therefore they expect downtowns and commercial streets to be full of surface lots for them to easily access any business.
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Old 10-05-2014, 02:37 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,663,662 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
does it really take half hour to park? I can find free parking in the Upper West Side of Manhattan faster than that. What about the public garages?
I think I was counting from the time one leaves the office until one finds the parking space. That only leaves 1/2 hour to get to the restaurant, order, eat and get back to the office.
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Old 10-05-2014, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,550,732 times
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Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I think I was counting from the time one leaves the office until one finds the parking space. That only leaves 1/2 hour to get to the restaurant, order, eat and get back to the office.
How long would the drive portion be from an office to a restaurant? And why would they be driving to a place to eat rather than walking to a nearby restaurant? Is this office space in a urban setting or is it an office park?
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Old 10-05-2014, 06:44 PM
 
8,328 posts, read 14,572,548 times
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Maybe they are a park ranger who works far off in the woods? Or at a dynamite factory or fireworks manufacturer who has to be located in a remote area lest an explosion take out the whole neighborhood? Some career choices have limited lunch options.
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Old 10-05-2014, 10:00 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,862,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
How long would the drive portion be from an office to a restaurant? And why would they be driving to a place to eat rather than walking to a nearby restaurant? Is this office space in a urban setting or is it an office park?
Depends on where in the city an office is located. Not everyplace is the CBD. There are offices all over town but you may not be near all that many restaurants or even if the restaurant is in walking distance the need to get to and from work quickly can over ride walking to the place. What is an 10 min. walk can be an 5 min. drive. In addition you may stop off just before or after work and again having parking or an drive thru is useful.
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Old 10-05-2014, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,550,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
Depends on where in the city an office is located. Not everyplace is the CBD. There are offices all over town but you may not be near all that many restaurants or even if the restaurant is in walking distance the need to get to and from work quickly can over ride walking to the place. What is an 10 min. walk can be an 5 min. drive. In addition you may stop off just before or after work and again having parking or an drive thru is useful.
True, we are talking about this in the most generic form, and in its generic form it is easy to argue for car dependent systems. When it is applied to specifics, it is easy to point out exactly how walkable communities function and make it so there isn't a need for car dependent communities.

What if it takes 5 minutes to find parking, then that 10 minute walk would be equal. Needing to have parking or drive thrus where ever you go is the example of a car dependent community. There is nothing walkable about that community which in turn makes it a very suburban car dependent community.

Sellwood, Portland, Or is an example of a walkable community that has businesses, commercial streets, and residential housing all within walking and biking distance of each other. Can someone drive to every location in Sellwood? You bet, but that doesn't mean that people cannot also walk and bike.

What you are advocating is that people only drive, while we are advocating a pedestrian first design that allows people to choose to walk, bike, or drive. That is something you can never get in a car dependent community.
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Old 10-05-2014, 10:48 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,862,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
bet, but that doesn't mean that people cannot also walk and bike.

What you are advocating is that people only drive, while we are advocating a pedestrian first design that allows people to choose to walk, bike, or drive. That is something you can never get in a car dependent community.
The reason why communities became car dependent is due to the limitations of both walking and biking as modes of transit along with the limitations of small housing and small stores.
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Old 10-05-2014, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,550,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
The reason why communities became car dependent is due to the limitations of both walking and biking as modes of transit along with the limitations of small housing and small stores.
That isn't true, suburbs were created to be car dependent so that more cars could be sold. If everyone needs to drive, then everyone needs a car.
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