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Old 10-16-2014, 07:06 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,013 posts, read 102,621,396 times
Reputation: 33082

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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeconomist View Post
Maybe that area with the Kohl's is walkable. The point, as I understand it, that if you live 3 miles (or however many) away from amenities, your own neighborhood may not (may is very important here, given the limited information) be walkable. That is certainly not the same thing as to say that the neighborhoods of those amenities are not themselves walkable. Different neighborhoods, different walkabilities.
Maybe my own neighborhood isn't walkable to Kohl's, but it is walkable to the Mormon church, an elementary school, and a small strip mall referenced above, plus several parks. Now I may have no need to go to the church or the elementary school, but that doesn't mean they're not walkable.
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Old 10-16-2014, 07:18 PM
 
2,553 posts, read 2,005,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Maybe my own neighborhood isn't walkable to Kohl's, but it is walkable to the Mormon church, an elementary school, and a small strip mall referenced above, plus several parks. Now I may have no need to go to the church or the elementary school, but that doesn't mean they're not walkable.
Correct. Each neighborhood's walkability must be considered individually.
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Old 10-16-2014, 07:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Called you out? Whatever.

The only shopping centers where people do what you're saying that I know of are the ones with grocery stores. There are several reasons for that. The cart returns are only in the part of the parking lot designated for the grocery store. The grocery stores usually don't like people leaving their carts at the farthest reaches of the parking lot from the store. Most people go to a mall and leave their car in one place, and malls are generally far bigger than most open-air shopping centers.

I have never known of people to get so freaked about curb cuts before this forum started on them a few months ago. There's a small strip mall near my home that yes, has some curb cuts for cars to enter, but it also has sidewalk throughout, and from most directions you can enter the mall on foot w/o accessing the car routes. Take a look:
https://www.google.com/maps/search/w.../data=!3m1!1e3

Now before you point out (LOL) that the parking lot is way too big for what's going on there, the store to the east of Walgreen's used to be a Safeway. That picture was taken before the Safeway was torn down; there's now a natural grocery store there (but in a slightly different location) but it just opened in June and there are no pictures of the shopping center since then.

I will point out that a half mile area in a downtown shopping area probably requires crossing some streets.
Well, you did specifically say that some people here think parking lots inhibit walking, yet that kids should play in the streets. While those don't accurately reflect what I wrote, I was the person who made specific remarks of those kinds.

Bank on topic, regardless if you disagree re: parking or curb cuts or intersections/crosswalks/streets, the bigger reality is that, again, we have to take people as they act in real life and analyze that. It doesn't work to analyze hypothetical people who act as we'd prefer they would. That's analyzing fiction, and can lead us to any conclusion we like because it's no longer a function of reality.
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Old 10-16-2014, 07:30 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,013 posts, read 102,621,396 times
Reputation: 33082
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeconomist View Post
Well, you did specifically say that some people here think parking lots inhibit walking, yet that kids should play in the streets. While those don't accurately reflect what I wrote, I was the person who made specific remarks of those kinds.

Bank on topic, regardless if you disagree re: parking or curb cuts or intersections/crosswalks/streets, the bigger reality is that, again, we have to take people as they act in real life and analyze that. It doesn't work to analyze hypothetical people who act as we'd prefer they would. That's analyzing fiction, and can lead us to any conclusion we like because it's no longer a function of reality.
I wasn't thinking specifically of you regarding advocates for kids playing in the streets. In fact, I wasn't really thinking of any one poster, just that general conversation. And it is silly that advocates for these woonerfs flip out over the idea of walking through a damn parking lot where the average speed is probably 15 mph.

That's what the study about Phoenix showed. People on here hated it, came up with all sorts of reasons why it wasn't valid.
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Old 10-16-2014, 07:33 PM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,171,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Maybe my own neighborhood isn't walkable to Kohl's, but it is walkable to the Mormon church, an elementary school, and a small strip mall referenced above, plus several parks. Now I may have no need to go to the church or the elementary school, but that doesn't mean they're not walkable.

everyone can walk to something, even a tree if nothing else

Would you suggest that the amount of amenities that are walkable on a regular basis and walked to by many or most is significant there. Is that the normal mode?
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Old 10-16-2014, 07:37 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,013 posts, read 102,621,396 times
Reputation: 33082
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
everyone can walk to something, even a tree if nothing else

Would you suggest that the amount of amenities that are walkable on a regular basis and walked to by many or most is significant there. Is that the normal mode?
Let me tell you, I'm so tired from working and thinking about ebola and the flu and whatnot, I don't really get what you're asking. "Many or most" of what group? There are >300 million people in the US. If it's important to me to live near my church and I'm a Mormon, I'd live in my neighborhood.
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Old 10-16-2014, 07:40 PM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,171,331 times
Reputation: 7739
I guess I am told...

Get some rest and stay safe
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Old 10-16-2014, 07:45 PM
 
2,553 posts, read 2,005,842 times
Reputation: 1348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I wasn't thinking specifically of you regarding advocates for kids playing in the streets. In fact, I wasn't really thinking of any one poster, just that general conversation. And it is silly that advocates for these woonerfs flip out over the idea of walking through a damn parking lot where the average speed is probably 15 mph.

That's what the study about Phoenix showed. People on here hated it, came up with all sorts of reasons why it wasn't valid.
Specifically regarding parking lots, it's not just the speed. In no particular order:

1) The whole environment is hostile to the pedestrian. It's an uncomfortable place, and, as such, people don't like to spend time there. People don't linger, which is a hallmark of walkability.
2) Parking lots create gaps between destinations, making walking less valuable to the pedestrian. At the extreme, lots of parking can really spread out an area.
3) Parking creates physical barriers to walking between destinations. People really, really, really like to walk in nearly-straight lines between destinations. But, parking and the attributes thereof can actually or effectively force people to take a circuitous path.

Again, it doesn't matter that you think it's silly that people here complain about walking through parking lots. How you or I or anyone thinks people should act is 100% irrelevant. What matters is how people actually act in any given location. And if walking through a parking lot didn't matter, there wouldn't be so much literature studying how long people search for parking close to the door instead of parking at the first available space. In reality, people will spend longer looking for a "good" spot than they would have spent walking from the first available space. Parking lots have a huge impact on walking.
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Old 10-17-2014, 01:16 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,989,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I don't know what is so difficult, either. Sure, three miles is pretty far to walk. There is a Kohl's department store 3.1 miles away from my house. Yeah, that's too far for me to consider walking down there (and uphill back home). BUT, there are many people that live within 1/2 to 1 mile of the place, so why would you say Kohl's isn't walkable? It has sidewalk access from anywhere in town.
No, it means the house isn't walkable to Kohl's. I was looking from the perspective of where people live. As for hipster bars, I don't think it's mentioned more than anything else. I haven't no interest in checking, I've barely mentioned them myself, I wish responses would mention them instead.
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Old 10-17-2014, 01:18 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,989,613 times
Reputation: 14810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
That's what the study about Phoenix showed. People on here hated it, came up with all sorts of reasons why it wasn't valid.
Again, people criticized it because Phoenix is such a car oriented city, I couldn't figure out it could say much about an actually walkable place.
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