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Old 10-17-2014, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,072 posts, read 16,098,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Walkability is both subjective and objective. To the individual, walkability is subjective because what is walkable for one might not be walkable for other. Walkability is objective when it comes to the overall.

Now there are things like areas being walkable once you get there, but you need to use a form of transportation to get to it. That is like me saying downtown Portland is very walkable, but it isn't in walking to me because I don't live within walking distance of it.

If you want a basis of what is considered to be walkability, you would want to go off of what this site points out.
What is walkability? - Community BuildersCommunity Builders
So the biggest consideration for "places" is work, something that even in places most people would regard as walkable like San Francisco very few people actually walk to or could even walk to if they wanted to. Otherwise, that's a much better "definition" of walkable, however.

It really isn't objective, although it talks about some academic models briefly which are objectively trying to measure walkability.
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Old 10-17-2014, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,072 posts, read 16,098,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
The walkable part of Old Roseville is my favorite part. I grew up out that way and rode my bike to the Roseville library all the time. It's the unwalkable parts of a city (or a suburb) that I prefer to malign.

Generally, when we mean "walkable" we're talking about "is it walkable for people who live there?" Meaning, can they go about most of their daily business without a car? Just because you don't live in a neighborhood and drive there doesn't mean it isn't walkable, just as the physical act of being able to walk 5 miles on the unpaved side of a highway to the nearest store doesn't make such a place walkable.

Where exactly is the "Big Box" neighborhood of San Francisco? I'm not familiar with it.
It's where 80 and 101 intersect basically. Just hop on Google maps and search for Costco or Potrero Center or Best Buy in San Francisco and you'll find it.
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Old 10-17-2014, 10:28 PM
 
8,328 posts, read 14,570,857 times
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Work is one of the most important "places," as it is where we spend about a quarter of our time. And it's hard if not impossible to generalize entire cities, but in many downtowns, a large proportion of people do live within feasible walking/biking distance or easy transit distance of their workplace. The automobile and the highway system have accomplished something never before possible--the total decoupling of residence and workplace. That as advantages, but it also has costs--and the tradeoffs between those are the main points of debate here.
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Old 10-17-2014, 10:31 PM
 
8,328 posts, read 14,570,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
It's where 80 and 101 intersect basically. Just hop on Google maps and search for Costco or Potrero Center or Best Buy in San Francisco and you'll find it.
Hm. Looks like a heavy commercial area with a lot of big-box stores. How odd, the presence of big box stores, huge parking lots and criss-crossed freeways has a negative effect on walkability, even in a city like San Francisco! Who woulda thunk it?
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Old 10-17-2014, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,544,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
So the biggest consideration for "places" is work, something that even in places most people would regard as walkable like San Francisco very few people actually walk to or could even walk to if they wanted to. Otherwise, that's a much better "definition" of walkable, however.

It really isn't objective, although it talks about some academic models briefly which are objectively trying to measure walkability.
That is the part I am talking about, that is how walkability is measured.
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Old 10-17-2014, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,072 posts, read 16,098,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
Hm. Looks like a heavy commercial area with a lot of big-box stores. How odd, the presence of big box stores, huge parking lots and criss-crossed freeways has a negative effect on walkability, even in a city like San Francisco! Who woulda thunk it?
On the other hand, the stretch on Brannan from Bed Bath and Beyond/Nordstrom Rack to REI to Performance Bicycle is more walkable. It's in that freeway/criss-cross area (although less immediately). I mean, it's an area that's going from industrial to commercial/residential so it's not the nicest of places (who likes walk around a bunch of warehouses?) but you see a fair number of pedestrians there amongst the big box stores.

Parking is really the main difference. REI has horrible parking, Bad Bath & Beyond/Nordstram Rack tucks the parking away midblock in a garage. The main problem from a pedestrian perspective is it wasn't designed with street entrances. It looked a lot like Downtown Plaza with a boring blank wall on the street side. They're in the process of adding them now and remodeling so it's much more street-accessible (windows, entrances, and so on). The area is becoming much more walkable as it shifts away from warehouses to commercial/residential.

Personally, I think eventually we'll see Portrero Center completely torn down and redeveloped to something more like 555 Ninth (Nordstrom Rack/Bed Bath & Beyond building).
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Old 10-17-2014, 11:31 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,072 posts, read 16,098,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
Work is one of the most important "places," as it is where we spend about a quarter of our time. And it's hard if not impossible to generalize entire cities, but in many downtowns, a large proportion of people do live within feasible walking/biking distance or easy transit distance of their workplace. The automobile and the highway system have accomplished something never before possible--the total decoupling of residence and workplace. That as advantages, but it also has costs--and the tradeoffs between those are the main points of debate here.
Actually, it was the railroads that accomplished that. See any railroad suburb in the east coast, early Park Slope, and so on. The automobile expanded that along with more Americans earning enough money that it was economically feasible. Forest Hill in San Francisco really kicked off development once Laguna Honda station was constructed.
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Old 10-18-2014, 04:31 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 42,008,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
Work is one of the most important "places," as it is where we spend about a quarter of our time. And it's hard if not impossible to generalize entire cities, but in many downtowns, a large proportion of people do live within feasible walking/biking distance or easy transit distance of their workplace. The automobile and the highway system have accomplished something never before possible--the total decoupling of residence and workplace. That as advantages, but it also has costs--and the tradeoffs between those are the main points of debate here.
A train/ subway/ streetcar system can accomplish much the same. In some cases more, as rail tends to leads to centralized employment. Rail oriented large cities (say NYC and london) get enormous commuter flows into the city center. Automobile oriented cities tend to get less walking because densities are lower and uses are more segregated. It's common for downtowns to have a large proportions of people living in easy walking distance (in cities with large downtowns such as NYC and Toronto the transit share decreases as walking increases), but in most cities the proportion of the population is small, and no it would still be the case without urban renewal. Looking at London (page 42) walking + bicycling is 10% high for American standards, but most can't or won't live near work most of the decoupling has already occurred in the first half of the 20th century. Note in the following page the most downtown-like district "City of London" has the few % of walking commuters, there aren't enough residences for the 300,000+ commuters to walk to work.
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Old 10-18-2014, 04:33 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 42,008,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
Hm. Looks like a heavy commercial area with a lot of big-box stores. How odd, the presence of big box stores, huge parking lots and criss-crossed freeways has a negative effect on walkability, even in a city like San Francisco! Who woulda thunk it?
Apparently there is some agreement on what isn't walkable. And at the other extreme, what is. Perhaps we could start from the obvious ones we can all agree and work our way up (or down).
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Old 10-18-2014, 05:19 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 42,008,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Here's a CD thread about walkability in Phoenix with some people reporting walkscores of as high as 86.Post your walkscore and give general area......

Here's another link showing neighborhood walkscores in Phoenix. Old course, those scores are not as accurate.
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed

Funny those claiming Phoenix essentially unwalkable never thought to look up this information.
I said low walkability. Those 80+ scores were both on the same street, near downtown and a university. It's not that hard for a spot right near a lot of shops to have a high walkscore, a neighborhood is different. I could find a bunch of areas of Long Island with similar neighborhood walk scores, a few maybe higher. But I would also consider Long Island rather car oriented, a study looking at just Long Island I'd perceive as oddly limited. Phoenix really isn't that different of a situation.

Last edited by Yac; 10-30-2014 at 08:15 AM..
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