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From wiki:
One proposed definition for walkability is: "The extent to which the built environment is friendly to the presence of people living, shopping, visiting, enjoying or spending time in an area".
Palladio is very friendly to the presence of people shopping, visiting, enjoying or spending time in the area. It's really a pretty nice place to hang out. Good amount of shopping, nice landscaping, outdoor dining. Anyway, if that's the definition, it's particularly bad.
Say Los Altos Hills, an area without any commercial buildings at all. By the definition of walkable, Los Altos Hills is a very walkable area. It's a fantastic place to live (and expensive), generally only five to ten minutes from downtown Los Altos, which is again imo a great place for shopping and so on. Just all around I'd say it's about perfect with the only downside being the median home price is in excess of $3,000,000. But back to being walkable? Uh, 0 of 10. It's just not, like at all. Popular with bicyclists though. Of course, no everyone will agree. Los Altos Hills is clearly not urban... more like artificial rural than even suburban. The urbanophiles might not like it.
Specifically regarding parking lots, it's not just the speed. In no particular order:
1) The whole environment is hostile to the pedestrian. It's an uncomfortable place, and, as such, people don't like to spend time there. People don't linger, which is a hallmark of walkability.
Of course people don't linger in parking lots; that's not what they're designed for. Duh.
But nor do most people linger on sidewalks, or in the middle of the street, or in front of hipster coffee shop doors, or many other locations that were not designed for lingering.
Quote:
3) Parking creates physical barriers to walking between destinations. People really, really, really like to walk in nearly-straight lines between destinations. But, parking and the attributes thereof can actually or effectively force people to take a circuitous path.
I don't know about you, but I'm perfectly capable of walking a straight line from the sidewalk, through the parking lot, and to my destination. Now parking is responsible for a bad sense of direction?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
1) You're right, people don't linger in a parking lot, though I do occasionally see people talking to each other in the grocery store parking lot.
Yes, and they're usually doing that right in front of my car.
Now ask five other people to define walkability. I dare you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric
From wiki:
One proposed definition for walkability is: "The extent to which the built environment is friendly to the presence of people living, shopping, visiting, enjoying or spending time in an area".
Isn't that an incomplete definition? t says nothing about walking. I can enjoy driving my car to the produce market, or I can enjoy walking there. There are plenty of people shopping and visiting the local Wal Mart, which is as unwalkable as you can get.
The normal mode depends on who and what you are doing. I can walk to the grocery store. I just would have to lug back groceries two blocks in God knows what weather and get groceries that are both more pricey and of less quality than if I had simply drove elsewhere. Even if I chose to drive to that particular store I could get there faster and carry more and be in an much better position to go elsewhere should that store not have what I need.
If you intend to do something less time constrained like oh go to an hipster bar after work or restaurant then walking makes some sense. Outside of that such as need to pick up the three year old from day care and need to be there by six then you will be less inclined to walk and more inclined to drive.
What are the things you do and go to each week? We all have errands to run, and it sounds like you don't live in the best part of Chicago when it comes to having good things within walking distance.
Do you pick a three year old up from daycare often?
From wiki:
One proposed definition for walkability is: "The extent to which the built environment is friendly to the presence of people living, shopping, visiting, enjoying or spending time in an area".
Palladio is very friendly to the presence of people shopping, visiting, enjoying or spending time in the area. It's really a pretty nice place to hang out. Good amount of shopping, nice landscaping, outdoor dining. Anyway, if that's the definition, it's particularly bad.
Seeing no one lives in Palladio, it is just an outdoor mall and not something that would be defined as walkable.
Now ask five other people to define walkability. I dare you.
Walkability is three principles, physical access, place, and proximity.
Physical access is things like sidewalks and crosswalks.
Place is things that one can walk to, the more things one has that is in walking distance the more the walkable the area.
Proximity is the distance one is from the places. The rule of thumb is a 10-15 minute walk or about a half mile. Once things are further than a half a mile the willingness one is to walk begins to decrees.
What are the things you do and go to each week? We all have errands to run, and it sounds like you don't live in the best part of Chicago when it comes to having good things within walking distance.
Do you pick a three year old up from daycare often?
Actually within walking distance are an bank, Walgreen, conner stores and fast food places. As well as day care centers, and churches. I have everything I need within reason within walking distance even an cleaners or two, hardware store as well as an pub.
However quality and price wise no one would get their groceries at either Walgreens or the conner stores. Esp. when in driving distance are two Walmarts, three Jewel Oscos and an lot of other choices. I have used the bank but as I usually want to go somewhere else afterward I tend to drive. Likewise I could walk to the cleaners but then again if I drive I could drop something off and go elsewhere.
I didn't know we were trying to define "walkable neighborhood". According to the thread title and OP, we're not.
How so? The OP doesn't. The title says "what makes a place or space walkable". A neighborhood is a place, obviously. So, I'll rewrite to satisfy the nitpick, and hopefully someone could actually respond to what I'm saying
If few are walking and almost everyone drives in a place, it's unlikely to be walkable and certainly isn't a walking place. instead looking at subjective characteristics on what might make people walk, just look at places where people do walk.
Interesting words coming from one who's never been there. Who says it's "such a car oriented city"? A bunch of posters on City-Data? The neighborhoods studied were walkable according to the researchers, who were conveniently there.
First, I've been there once. By any list or statistic I've seen of US cities, it's never ranked highly. It's certainly doesn't have many if any dense neighborhoods so it's liable for things to be rather spread out. Perhaps Phoenix is an unknown hotbed of pedestrians. Maybe those Phoenix neighborhoods were only walkable compared to other nearby Phoenix neighborhoods, so a rather low standard.
What are the things you do and go to each week? We all have errands to run, and it sounds like you don't live in the best part of Chicago when it comes to having good things within walking distance.
Do you pick a three year old up from daycare often?
If there's a 3 year old in daycare, someone has to pick him/her up.
Seeing no one lives in Palladio, it is just an outdoor mall and not something that would be defined as walkable.
But by the definition in wiki that is right as opposed to all others, that is not a problem. It's a series of "ors." It doesn't matter that no one lives there as it meets the other criteria quite well. Plus you can always live nearby and drive there easily and then walk around so that's no really a problem either if you're looking at a larger scale than just what's immediately right there.
Seriously, a definition of walkable without anything to do with walking is just never going to get it even remotely.
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