U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-07-2014, 08:13 AM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,957,397 times
Reputation: 1953

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv101 View Post
I live 25 minutes from LAX, and while all the airlines pad their schedules, HSR simply can't traverse the flat-as-a-billiard table desert out here fast enough to make fiscal sense, let alone the hills of Ohio and the mid-Atlantic states.
1:50 is pretty fast. But I don't think you understand how expensive air travel is and how heavily subsidized it is.

Quote:
If a Southwest flight leaves LAX at 10 AM, I'll arrive at the airport at 9AM, and reach the waiting area within 20 minutes.
So you're already 1:25 into your trip before your plane even takes off. Your train would already be 50 minutes away from Phoenix and, if you need to work en route, you can. No one is going to tell you to "power down all of your devices" or ask you to put your tray up on a train.

Quote:
The Northeast has the density which HSR requires, plain & simple.
That's not how it works. Density is not the measure of potential success - travel demand in the corridor determines whether or not it will be successful.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-07-2014, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Paris
8,133 posts, read 6,687,305 times
Reputation: 3371
Veering off topic, but here's a study that compares air vs train travel on several widely used European routes:
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/rail/s...etition_en.pdf

Considering the longest route fully equipped with HSR, the market share of train between Paris and Marseille is twice that of air travel. Paris-Marseille is 480 miles, 110 miles longer than LA-PHX and part of the route crosses hilly terrain. The journey takes 1h20 by plane, 2h10 on average incl. time spent at the airport vs 3h10 by train. The goal of the airline operator is to maintain a 40% market share on such routes (vs 60% for HSR), road travel not counted. Current market share is 67% by train - 33% by plane between Paris and Marseille. The train route is profitable.

Los Angeles is bigger than Paris and Phoenix much bigger than Marseille. As for connections at each end station, urban public transit is better on this side of the pond, but Marseille's system is pretty lousy. I imagine a lot would have relatives drive them to/from the station or take a taxi for business travelers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2014, 06:47 PM
 
9,520 posts, read 14,846,931 times
Reputation: 9769
In the northeast, the major competitor for rail is the car. Rail currently has an artificial advantage over air thanks to the TSA, but one bombing will end that, and then long distance rail will again have no niche.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2014, 06:54 PM
 
Location: MMU->ABE->ATL->ASH
9,130 posts, read 17,156,839 times
Reputation: 9982
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurricaneMan1992 View Post
Ironically, I just checked flights from BWI to IND, and the fastest I could find was 3 1/2 hours with one stop, but most of the itineraries were longer than 4 hours, and some were longer than 6 hours! Now you can get nonstop from Dulles to IND, which takes around 1:45, of course, if you were in Baltimore getting out to Dulles is itself a quite a journey. Driving from Baltimore to Indianapolis takes around 9-10 hours, so let's say HSR 7-8 hours (can't go full speed over the mountains, for one thing...). Bottom line: you still wouldn't save much time, if any, compared to taking the plane.
Southwest flys from BWI -> IND in apx 90mins

(Southwest does not subscript to the Outside Search Travel Agents, you can only book/search on there website ... ORbitz, Expidia don't list them)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2014, 08:29 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,991 posts, read 42,008,719 times
Reputation: 14810
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
In the northeast, the major competitor for rail is the car. Rail currently has an artificial advantage over air thanks to the TSA, but one bombing will end that, and then long distance rail will again have no niche.
Many of the customers for Acela would take air instead. Business travelers will fly short distances, going to JFK or Newark from Manhattan is much more cumbersome than Penn Station. The speed advantage isn't enough to be worth it over Amtrak. At the lower end, Amtrak is overpriced compared to driving, and those not driving often save money by taking express buses.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2014, 07:10 PM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,957,397 times
Reputation: 1953
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
In the northeast, the major competitor for rail is the car. Rail currently has an artificial advantage over air thanks to the TSA, but one bombing will end that, and then long distance rail will again have no niche.
Amtrak's share of travel between NYC and DC was on the rise long before 9/11 and was around 55% when the planes hit. For NYC to Boston it was around 41% . . . and train travel also declined after 9/11. The TSA has a lot less to do with people's preference for trains vs. convenience, speed, and fewer delays.

At present the NYC-DC corridor is 75% for Amtrak and NYC-Boston is 54%

I don't see what your crass hope for a terrorist attack is going to accomplish either. Madrid, Paris, and London have all had high profile terrorist attacks on their rail and/or transit networks. It hasn't changed much in any of those places.

It's like saying that the Boston bombings were going to cause less walking in Boston.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top