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Old 04-28-2014, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,388 posts, read 7,562,455 times
Reputation: 16007

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
So there it is. "Urban planners" aren't content with high density living for themselves - they need to herd others into it.

"Rural" housing is not the cause of the problems you speak of and you'll find everything you complained of and worse in cities. The same "corporations" you complain of are found in the cities PLUS the residents have to deal with the "greedy" local government and all the taxes needed to support the greedy public employee unions.
What all this appears to boil down to is a battle between those who don't trust Big Brother/Sister vs. those who want to be Big Brother/Sister.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the city View Post

If people live close to urban centers, and I'm not even saying push everyone to major cities but to push people close to metros with at least 125,000-150,000 population. Then people have access to social services, more socialization options, better healthcare, and public transportation and heck even the possible of biking to work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post

I do think a few things could/should be done. If the Post Office was allowed to close down little-used rural stations, it would hurry things along (and help stop the Post Office from sliding into bankruptcy). I also think states have a reason to forcibly merge some small local governments if they end up providing substantial aid to them - for example, in the case of school districts. But I'd leave it at that.
The posters above might be sincere in their beliefs, but you can be certain that there are people who would be ready and willing to carry things further, and use stronger measures when things don't turn out as promised.

Because power is an addictive drug, and a little overstepping of authority is just like a little pregnancy ... or a little malignancy.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 04-28-2014 at 08:09 PM..
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Old 04-28-2014, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Maui County, HI
4,131 posts, read 6,328,575 times
Reputation: 3364
I think you're out of touch with the reality of urban life for the poor. In poor neighborhoods in cities there is a lot of crime, drug abuse, bad schools, etc
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Old 04-28-2014, 08:39 PM
 
Location: West Madison^WMHT
3,289 posts, read 3,159,759 times
Reputation: 4107
Exclamation Go ahead, "push"; you'll find we push back.

My town in NH is rural, with many people keeping small livestock and growing their own food, and also multiple working full-scale farms. But the population is growing, most newcomers are technologists and others who don't have to be in a cubicle farm every day. Sure, Fedex, UPS and Amazon Prime are subsidizing this lifestyle, but it's not coming out of your taxes, you have no right to "push" us out of our undersized rural community.

Maybe the Agenda 21 folks are crazy conspiracy theorists, but the more I read from the progressives, the less crazy the opposition sounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the city View Post
I remember in one of my sociology classes seeing statistics that most of the poverty in America was actually in rural areas and small towns.

I just see allowing communities in rural areas as bad.
Allowing? Go ahead, come to my town and try to tell the residents they are no longer "allowed" to have a community in our rural area.

Quote:
Not to mention, it costs more to get resources out to the rural areas.
Sure it does. My employer pays a king's ransom to get 20mb broadband Internet to my house so I can telecommute to their office 1,500 miles away. And I'm not even the most rural of our staff, we have guys out west who their nearest neighbor is literally over the horizon.

Quote:
If people live close to urban centers, and I'm not even saying push everyone to major cities but to push people close to metros with at least 125,000-150,000 population. Then people have access to social services, more socialization options, better healthcare, and public transportation and heck even the possible of biking to work.
There you go again, "push"? If people don't want to live crammed together in a high-density metro area, you intend to push them into it? Again, good luck with that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Not even close, quite the opposite, rural areas are over represented, while urban areas are under represented. In the small town where I grew up, about everyone was on a personal relationship with the mayor (who also got paid $1 a year, and was a house painter by profession), I doubt that exists in any urban environment. Also for the per person ratio of representing, from local all the way to federal, rural people have way mreo representation than those in urban environments.
New Hampshire is a shining example of over-representation -- Everybody knows their state reps, usually personally. Nearly all taxation is local (property tax, there is no broad-based income or sales tax), and with the town meeting system, residents vote on each tiny increment in property taxes and how it is to be spent. And the bulk of the state is vast emptiness, 80% forest with scattered pockets of "rural" white folk suffering from all that extra freedom. Horrible place, stay away!
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Old 04-28-2014, 11:29 PM
 
5,076 posts, read 8,557,579 times
Reputation: 4632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonesuch View Post
My town in NH is rural, with many people keeping small livestock and growing their own food, and also multiple working full-scale farms. But the population is growing, most newcomers are technologists and others who don't have to be in a cubicle farm every day. Sure, Fedex, UPS and Amazon Prime are subsidizing this lifestyle, but it's not coming out of your taxes, you have no right to "push" us out of our undersized rural community.
Somehow I doubt the technologists, people owning full-scale farms and those using amazon prime are the ones also unable to find low wage jobs and requiring government assistance. Just a guess. If you know otherwise, that's a real eye opener.
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Old 04-29-2014, 01:20 AM
 
Location: Oceania
8,623 posts, read 6,284,877 times
Reputation: 8318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonesuch View Post

Maybe the Agenda 21 folks are crazy conspiracy theorists
Something you all will soon realize...there are no theories as there are no longer any conspiracies.
THEY are doing whatever they want brazenly in broad daylight. If ever asked about it by congressional committees they lie, stall and deny everything and anything. If that doesn't work POTUS gets them off.
All of this is common knowledge and can be found on the net.
If you happen to be awake and realize the facts I am sure there are still those who think you to be nuts if bringing the point up.

The only thing crazy is no one is ever charged of unconstitutional behavior. They are getting free passes. If it came to SCOTUS they would let it pass.

There are a lot of THEYS, right?

Look up Agenda 21 on YT and watch some videos. Then decide for yourself. Your town/county is most likely signed onto ICLEI. You can Google it and find out.
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Old 04-29-2014, 02:04 AM
 
2,660 posts, read 4,848,897 times
Reputation: 3477
Quote:
Originally Posted by the city View Post
OMG r u kidding? without malls and stores, you won't get the variety and all the sales. online doesn't offer you all that.
Online shopping offers infinitely more variety than brick and mortar shopping,even if one lives next to the Mall of America. Also there are plenty of online sales and coupon code sites like retailmenot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by the city View Post
online courses? those are really hard. it means more bookwork and requires good time management skills. and places like brandman university have high drop out rates. getting your master's degree online is the only time it's acceptable to do online. don't forget online school costs more. and the cheap ones aren't that reputable.
Online classes are much easier! No suffering through boring lectures and 8 am classes! Online degrees are just at their infancy. The Cal State system offers a limited number of bachelors degrees online. Also there is a difference between online "education" and online "degrees". One can learn an infinite variety of stuff on from Coursera & Udacity and many other places. It won't count for a degree but one gets the knowledge for free.
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Old 04-29-2014, 05:58 AM
 
Location: plano
6,607 posts, read 8,159,544 times
Reputation: 5866
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
I wasn't talking about exurbs. I was talking about the middle US.
Rural areas in parts of Texas and Oklahoma and North Dakota are growing
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Old 04-29-2014, 08:47 AM
 
Location: West Madison^WMHT
3,289 posts, read 3,159,759 times
Reputation: 4107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkarch View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonesuch
My town in NH is rural, with many people keeping small livestock and growing their own food, and also multiple working full-scale farms. But the population is growing, most newcomers are technologists and others who don't have to be in a cubicle farm every day. Sure, Fedex, UPS and Amazon Prime are subsidizing this lifestyle, but it's not coming out of your taxes, you have no right to "push" us out of our undersized rural community.
Somehow I doubt the technologists, people owning full-scale farms and those using amazon prime are the ones also unable to find low wage jobs and requiring government assistance. Just a guess. If you know otherwise, that's a real eye opener.
Our population is mixed. Not everybody can run a full-scale farm, many just have a few chickens, some cold frames, maybe a half dozen goats. The families with less income are the people selling off the pasture for a housing development so they can afford to keep living in the farmhouse.

There's a difference between not using direct government handouts to enable people with minimal or no income to live in rural areas, and tactics like what the city advocates "And when I mean "push" I don't mean force, but create incentives (could be harsh incentives and some gentle incentives) for people to leave where they are renting or own land in a rural area to come live closer to center."

Quote:
Originally Posted by armory
Look up Agenda 21 on YT and watch some videos. Then decide for yourself. Your town/county is most likely signed onto ICLEI. You can Google it and find out.
New Hampshire is not going well for the sustainable develoment crowd. Even some towns that once signed on to the LRPC have seen through the 'Agenda' of Regional Planning and kicked HUD to the curb.
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Old 04-29-2014, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,130 posts, read 102,928,437 times
Reputation: 33177
Quote:
Originally Posted by capoeira View Post
Online shopping offers infinitely more variety than brick and mortar shopping,even if one lives next to the Mall of America. Also there are plenty of online sales and coupon code sites like retailmenot.




Online classes are much easier! No suffering through boring lectures and 8 am classes! Online degrees are just at their infancy. The Cal State system offers a limited number of bachelors degrees online. Also there is a difference between online "education" and online "degrees". One can learn an infinite variety of stuff on from Coursera & Udacity and many other places. It won't count for a degree but one gets the knowledge for free.
Are you serious? My daughter took an online class and had to watch lectures via youtube! Put me to sleep! And yeah, you can choose which 3 hrs or so a day to attend class, but you still have to do it.
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Old 04-29-2014, 09:32 AM
 
3,492 posts, read 4,979,844 times
Reputation: 5383
Quote:
Originally Posted by the city View Post
I remember in one of my sociology classes seeing statistics that most of the poverty in America was actually in rural areas and small towns.

I just see allowing communities in rural areas as bad.
TL;DR. Stopped at end of quote. It's not up to you to "allow" things, unless you are talking about a dictatorship. You want to revise some city codes, so be it. Telling people in rural areas "it is bad for me to allow you to live here", will get circular part of a rifle presented to you.

Their choice. Not your choice.
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