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Old 05-07-2014, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,171 posts, read 29,686,954 times
Reputation: 26671

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I'm saying a preferable title would be "Did we kill our Main Streets". Have you ever seen some of the thread titles on P&OC?

Ex: Why does American society view adult patients as much less important than child patients?

Now, is that true? Several people said "no". Is it true that "we" killed our Main Streets?

Here's more:
An OP: http://www.city-data.com/forum/34639331-post1.html
Why do married women vote republican and single women vote democrat?
My response: http://www.city-data.com/forum/33950037-post29.html

Why Are Americans Giving Up Their Citizenship?
Why is the US pubilc school system so bad?
Liberals, in general, why are private schools better than public schools?
Me:
Why public educations is crumbling
Me:

Are all these "why" questions true?
I thought it was a forgone conclusion we killed our main streets. I don't go to the politics forum often, it is more like the stupid stereotypes of liberals, immigrants and black people forum.
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:54 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
33,905 posts, read 42,154,529 times
Reputation: 43310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazel W View Post
Katiana, I could search the entire list of threads and probably find this myself but it's much faster to ask and dinner is ready. What is P&OC, please?

So, instead of asking 'why we killed main street", you think we should first prove that we did. Right? OK. We did! Or, how about asking how we killed main street. Now that sounds better. No? And, no, I am not nettling you. I see exactly what you are saying and it makes perfect sense. We end up answering those question anyway, don't we? How, why, when, etc., The journalism rules of writing taught by the best teacher I had from K through B.A. .

I'd better leave before you shoot me.
Politics and Other Controversies, sort of the Wild West of City Data. Some of us go over there as gunslingers while other are the cowering ton folk and sheepherders.


We didn't kill Main Street. Evolution of business (see a previous post about Sears) did. As did the economy. As did the increasing mobility of US society. Read where Katiana has lived, she mentioned a couple place earlier. From near Pittsburgh to the Midwest to Colorado.

The reality is that downtown areas got too expensive (in larger towns), or too congested (in both large and small towns), or were bypassed by interstate highways (which bypassed small towns on purpose).

The internet is now doing a similar number on traditional business models.

Not germane, maybe, but I just got an order from Cabela's today. I placed the order on line Monday night, standard shipping, USPS.

Twenty years ago I would have mailed out a paper order with a check enclosed. A week or two later I'd get the order.

Fifteen years ago I would have called the toll free number and placed the order. About a week later I'd get it.

Today? Two days.
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Old 05-07-2014, 04:00 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,014 posts, read 102,634,943 times
Reputation: 33082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazel W View Post
Katiana, I could search the entire list of threads and probably find this myself but it's much faster to ask and dinner is ready. What is P&OC, please?

So, instead of asking 'why we killed main street", you think we should first prove that we did. Right? OK. We did! Or, how about asking how we killed main street. Now that sounds better. No? And, no, I am not nettling you. I see exactly what you are saying and it makes perfect sense. We end up answering those question anyway, don't we? How, why, when, etc., The journalism rules of writing taught by the best teacher I had from K through B.A. .

I'd better leave before you shoot me.
LOL! No, I won't shoot you! I'm glad you're posting here. We need some more females. This forum is very much dominated by young, mostly single, males. Even the married ones in general have no kids.

P&OC means "Politics and Other Controversies". It's very contentious and I don't go there as much as I used to. There are threads that pop up there from time to time such as "Why is the Democratic party a failure?"; "Why are liberals so (insert negative word here)?", etc.

Also, back in the dark ages, when I did my psychiatric nursing rotation, we learned to never ask the patient "Why", b/c it made them defensive, e.g. "Why did you try to jump off the Smithfield St. Bridge?", etc. It doesn't bring about good discussion. Yeah, I learned those journalism rules too, but I still think why is a question best avoided, at least at the beginning of a discussion.

OK, now I see that the OP has responded, and I guess what I'm saying is that not everyone thinks it is a foregone conclusion that "we" (who's this we Kemosabe?) killed anything! Thinking something is a forgone conclusion is "begging the question".
Beg The Question // Get it right.
**"Begging the question" is a form of logical fallacy in which a statement or claim is assumed to be true without evidence other than the statement or claim itself. When one begs the question, the initial assumption of a statement is treated as already proven without any logic to show why the statement is true in the first place.**

So in your example, the Main Street may not be as lively as when your father was a little boy, but does that mean someone deliberately caused that to happen?
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Old 05-07-2014, 04:06 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,998,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
So in your example, the Main Street may not be as lively as when your father was a little boy, but does that mean someone deliberately caused that to happen?
I thought you were trying to argue it wasn't a foregone conclusion that Main Streets were killed, which was what you thought was "begging the question". I didn't think the OP said someone deliberately killed them.
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Old 05-07-2014, 04:24 PM
 
2,684 posts, read 2,930,294 times
Reputation: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
LOL! No, I won't shoot you! I'm glad you're posting here. We need some more females. This forum is very much dominated by young, mostly single, males. Even the married ones in general have no kids.

P&OC means "Politics and Other Controversies". It's very contentious and I don't go there as much as I used to. There are threads that pop up there from time to time such as "Why is the Democratic party a failure?"; "Why are liberals so (insert negative word here)?", etc.

Also, back in the dark ages, when I did my psychiatric nursing rotation, we learned to never ask the patient "Why", b/c it made them defensive, e.g. "Why did you try to jump off the Smithfield St. Bridge?", etc. It doesn't bring about good discussion. Yeah, I learned those journalism rules too, but I still think why is a question best avoided, at least at the beginning of a discussion.

OK, now I see that the OP has responded, and I guess what I'm saying is that not everyone thinks it is a foregone conclusion that "we" (who's this we Kemosabe?) killed anything! Thinking something is a forgone conclusion is "begging the question".
Beg The Question // Get it right.
**"Begging the question" is a form of logical fallacy in which a statement or claim is assumed to be true without evidence other than the statement or claim itself. When one begs the question, the initial assumption of a statement is treated as already proven without any logic to show why the statement is true in the first place.**

So in your example, the Main Street may not be as lively as when your father was a little boy, but does that mean someone deliberately caused that to happen?
"Deliberately" probably isn't the best description-- my! we are into semantics today, aren't we? - but it will do. When highway authorities decided to bypass towns and developers decided to buy the cheaper land outside town and give us our AC, plus a lot of other things, and Greyhound decided it preferred to fly down the highway rather than stop in small towns that needed them badly, did we (meaning anyone who planned and carried out these deeds) have any inkling of what we were doing to downtown? If we/they were good business people, we did know and therefore we did do it deliberately. Even we, the little people, bear some responsibility because we willingly followed those developers to the suburbs.

There was a lumber company in Indiana who once did a survey about our tendencies to select certain stores. They'd just built a new store which, in layout and furnishings was identical to all their other stores. When they opened the new one, they sat down to watch. Sure enough, business fell of badly at all the older stores while their customers flocked to the new ones. So, yes, we in our innocence helped kill Main Street.

Someone mentioned that downtown got too expensive. I'd not thought about that but it was true. Kansas City once had a beautiful downtown even when many businesses had migrated to the suburbs, it was still the place to go - especially at Christmas time. Now they've redone it in hopes of bringing back the crowds. I don't live there any more. So, I don't know how that is working. I can only say that it doesn't appeal to me. Such a conglomeration of this, that and the other. And building shoved up against each other like sardines in a can. Different styles that should be far apart to be appreciated.

It isn't all bad, of course. Cities are growing. Populations need room to spread out. We need the new. We just long for the old. Now I must go. I've a good book to finish tonight. And even books are disappearing in favor of Nooks.
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Old 05-07-2014, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
32,390 posts, read 59,868,870 times
Reputation: 54036
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
No, I'm not sure what it expresses. Main streets were obviously killed off by something or someone*. It'd be nice to go to discussing the how and why of it.

*Or were they? Since as you said, it's begging the question. But plenty have definitely declined, I don't think anyone has disputed it.
Perhaps the question's premise is all wrong; perhaps Main Street is evolving, not dying. Perhaps the smaller storefronts on Main Street are better suited to niche businesses instead of mass merchandisers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post


Nothing ever changes around here. It's great to be back.
We missed you.
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Old 05-07-2014, 05:18 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,998,698 times
Reputation: 14810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Perhaps the question's premise is all wrong; perhaps Main Street is evolving, not dying. Perhaps the smaller storefronts on Main Street are better suited to niche businesses instead of mass merchandisers.
Now that seems like a more reasonable premise to argue with. I think it depends on the Main Street, there are some that died more than evolved and even a few that grew. The OP's choice of example sounded like one that died.

Also, there are plenty of stores not in a Main Street format that aren't that large. Most strip mall-style stores, for example.
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Old 05-07-2014, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Maui County, HI
4,131 posts, read 6,309,257 times
Reputation: 3364
Remember when the commie pinko liberals told you that Big Box retailers would destroy main streets, and you ignored them? Told you so.


http://www.preservationnation.org/ma...in-street.html
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:47 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,014 posts, read 102,634,943 times
Reputation: 33082
Quote:
Originally Posted by winkosmosis View Post
Remember when the commie pinko liberals told you that Big Box retailers would destroy main streets, and you ignored them? Told you so.


What Happened to America's Main Streets? - Main Street
Actually, it was Sears, Penney's and Wards that did it, 100+ years ago.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:55 PM
 
9,520 posts, read 14,842,524 times
Reputation: 9769
Malls had more selection, longer hours, lower prices, and cheap and convenient parking. Even now with the urbanism movements, revived main streets are more about service businesses and boutiquey stores than actual places to get things done. And now of course on-line shopping is hurting malls and boutiquey places. Main streets are an anachronism; we're not going back.
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