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Old 05-19-2014, 08:22 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,002 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33059

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
Apart from safety issues and parking, what would you say that the average American downtown (for bigger cities) is lacking most that it might need? Amenities like grocers or stores? Things to do? Transit? Services like schools, maybe? What else?

What about your city? What does your downtown lack? Is there anything that isn't there that should be, in your or others' opinion?
Getting back to the OP: Many people say downtown Denver lacks a grocery store. However, that depends on how you define "downtown". There is a King Soopers (Kroger's) just south of Colfax on Speer Blvd.
https://www.google.com/maps/search/k...d3347f8701f6ee
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Old 05-19-2014, 08:38 AM
 
9,446 posts, read 5,254,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatsbyGatz View Post
Not only people in general, but families. The mental image that most people have of American downtowns usually includes bars, drunks, the poor, homeless, mentally ill, and single professionals. It never includes children because our society thinks downtown isn't a place for children to be in.

Most American downtowns provide a lot of their homeless shelters and rehabilitation programs in the core of the city, leading to an increase in the perception of crime and presence of "strange people". This discourages families to move downtown, limiting downtowns mostly to single, child-less people and the homeless/mentally ill. Also, downtown rents usually are more expensive per square foot of space, so your average couple with one child will obviously choose to live in outlaying neighborhoods where rents are cheaper. Downtowns usually don't have elementary schools for parents to send their children to, nor do most downtowns provide easily accessible grocery stores.

Suffice it to say, urban decay from the 70s-today have transformed our downtowns to rather "unfriendly" places that most people don't find to be very livable without some major inconveniences.
Well, then downtown Philadelphia, which we call Center City, is doing something very different than how most Americans, as you say perceive downtowns.

On any given day I see lots of small children here downtown. Kids in strollers. Kids with Moms, Dads, and grandparents.

We have two very kid-oriented parks. We do have elementary schools: public, private, charters downtown. Grocery stores/super markets? Yes, we those too downtown.

Some of these folks are definitely tourists with kids but most are not; they live here downtown.
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Old 05-19-2014, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Old East Dallas
297 posts, read 403,779 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Getting back to the OP: Many people say downtown Denver lacks a grocery store. However, that depends on how you define "downtown". There is a King Soopers (Kroger's) just south of Colfax on Speer Blvd.
https://www.google.com/maps/search/k...d3347f8701f6ee
I lived in Denver. King Soopers is NOT downtown. LOL !
Waaaaaaay far from it.

I didn't look at your map, but you're talking about the one on 38th, correct? and it leads towards a
curve, which passes the police station, then over that new bridge, and past the BallPark?

edit: Wait, I see the one you're talking about.
NOpe, thats not "downtown".

But in a lot of small cities, it is considered downtown.
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Old East Dallas
297 posts, read 403,779 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Most school districts have policies against advertising for businesses.
Well, that's most likely because the districts want kids to stay in their Suburban areas
so that their local market can gain profit.

Also, when I was in Elementary school, (here in Dallas)
They would give us flyers or free passes to the museum, the zoo
and elsewhere (the Anatole, etc... )

I don't know if they still do that or not, coz I don't have kids,
but there are ways around that.

Klyde Warren Park (here in Dallas) is a start.
And since the park is not technically a business,
they CAN advertise and let the kids know to come join
in the festivities/activities.

Also, it is up to the City's City Hall to get rid of those types of ordinances
that restrict the City from flourishing.
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:31 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,002 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDarkSide View Post
I lived in Denver. King Soopers is NOT downtown. LOL !
Waaaaaaay far from it.

I didn't look at your map, but you're talking about the one on 38th, correct? and it leads towards a
curve, which passes the police station, then over that new bridge, and past the BallPark?

edit: Wait, I see the one you're talking about.
NOpe, thats not "downtown".

But in a lot of small cities, it is considered downtown.
You might look at the map. It's on 14th and Speer, one block south of Colfax.

Now downtown Louisville could use a grocery store, a hardware store, clothing store, shoe store, housewares store (eg Target, etc), pharmacy for starts. There are already enough restaurants, pizza parlors, used book stores, ice cream shops, antiques stores and the like there.
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Old 05-20-2014, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,685 posts, read 8,753,261 times
Reputation: 7299
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
There's no question in my mind a healthy city needs to have a healthy downtown. My point was only I think that the "family friendliness" of downtown ranks very low in terms of what a downtown needs (unless you're talking about very basic levels of friendliness, like having low crime and not a lot of sketchy people hanging around, which is universally appealing). A healthy downtown will attract some families eventually, but only the sort of people willing to pay the big price premium for a small amount of living space and no yard. This by nature is only going to be a minority of parents - those hyper-committed to urbanism (so committed they turn up their nose at even a rowhouse, a mid-rise apartment, or a house with a postage-stamp yard), and/or those with enough money they can get whatever they desire.
It's not just young families that make up a vibrant downtown. Seniors also can contribute. This article is about single seniors, but many seniors who are downsizing also take up residence because of the ease of access to amenities etc.

Single seniors find comfortable, convenient life in Vancouver
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Old 05-20-2014, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,685 posts, read 8,753,261 times
Reputation: 7299
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Families also tend to prefer other areas with families. Being in area full of tourists and visitors is less appealing than just a high density area full of apartment buildings with no yard. In Manhattan, Midtown Manhattan would be less appealing than the Upper West Side. Of course, choosing to have a home with yard would mean not living in Manhattan. In most other American cities, one could live reasonably close to the center of the city in an area with more living space.

Paris has 300,000 children (ages 0-14), living spaces are small in Paris and any sort yard, shared or unshared yard is mostly nonexistent:

POPULATION PARIS : statistics of Paris 75000

Still, the child % is lower in Paris than its suburbs.

Vancouver was mentioned. In the West End, next to downtown the child % is 6% vs a citywide average of 17%:

http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/profile-west-end-2012.pdf

However, because its population density is so high, the child density is slightly higher than the citywide average [this pattern has been mentioned a while ago]. All three of the West End elementary schools are at capacity. Interestingly, the neighborhood housing stock is mostly post-war despite being within the downtown area in among the oldest parts of the city.
The west end used to be mainly mansions at the turn of the 20th century, until the money moved further south to Shaughnessy, leaving many of these mansion rooming houses and ripe for development. Apartment blocks existed before the Second World War, but the real boom in high - rise apartments happened in the late 1950's through to the early 1970's. New buildings are still built of course, but that was when the majority of the existing apartments were built.
Gastown for example, another downtown neighbourhood, did not see this development and therefore has the majority of the oldest buildings in Vancouver.
Yaletown is another downtown neighbourhood which is also has many young families living in it. I couldn't find stats on it, but it feels full of children if the playgrounds are any indication. It is a newer neighbourhood in the sense that it used to be a warehouse district, now converted old building and many brand new high-rise towers but with businesses on the bottom floors which keeps the streets alive and very walkable.
Coal Harbour, another downtown neighbourhood has the least children from my observations.
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Old 05-20-2014, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,841 posts, read 7,329,858 times
Reputation: 13779
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebb_12 View Post
Exactly. The urban planners out there can spend eternity arguing about walkability, services, housing size, etc... but it's all for naught when most Americans don't and never will live in dense areas. If you want to live in a downtown you need to go to Asia or Europe.
They also don't want to live in downtowns. We Americans are the descendents, at least intellectually, of people who traveled half way around the world in order to own their own piece of ground, not to crowd together in rented hovels like back in "the old country". That so many immigrants never achieved that dream didn't mean that the dream died ... especially for their children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc.
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Old 05-20-2014, 06:14 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,102,417 times
Reputation: 3117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
It's not just young families that make up a vibrant downtown. Seniors also can contribute. This article is about single seniors, but many seniors who are downsizing also take up residence because of the ease of access to amenities etc.

Single seniors find comfortable, convenient life in Vancouver
I am a big fan of multigenerational neighborhoods. I noticed tremendous diversity in age when I visited Victoria BC.
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Old 05-20-2014, 06:27 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,002 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
I guess I'll just fire up my time machine since the distant past is where this thread appears to be headed.
"Those who forget the past. . . "
Quotes About Doomed To Repeat It (15 quotes)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
It's not just young families that make up a vibrant downtown. Seniors also can contribute. This article is about single seniors, but many seniors who are downsizing also take up residence because of the ease of access to amenities etc.

Single seniors find comfortable, convenient life in Vancouver
I've read fluff articles like that about cities in the US as well, but the fact is most people "retire in place".
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/15/bu...lace.html?_r=0
**Mr. Frey said that where someone was at age 45 was the best predictor of where he or she would retire. **

Mr. Frey is a demographer for the Brookings Institution.
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