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Old 05-16-2014, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,091 posts, read 16,121,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
The business/downtown area of Paris is central Paris. It's not useless at meeting the needs of a modern society. Central Paris is the main job center, it is rather dispersed compared to American skyscraper district, but it's by far the biggest job center. I'm having trouble finding recent numbers, I found an employment total of 1 million in 1990. I think it has declined somewhat, but it's still much larger than La Defense. I'm sure why you'd call La Defense a downtown, a better description would be a secondary downtown similar to Arlington for DC [downtown DC is still much larger even though it has no skyscrapers]. La Defense also isn't job sprawl in the the sense of being far away from the city center and rather disconnected, as many suburban office parks, again similar to Arlington. Here's the CBD of Paris:

SkyscraperPage Forum - View Single Post - Can someone explain to me how Paris can be almost as dense as Manhattan?

As for old London being useless, no. The bulk of the jobs are still in old London. The City of London has 400,000 jobs, about the same as Chicago's Loop in less area. Westminster to the west holds most government jobs and many non-finance company headquarters, again can't find recent numbers for Westminster but estimating 800,000 jobs. Canary Wharf would be a fraction of that. Of course, the City of London accomplished squeezing so many jobs in a small area by tearing some old buildings for skyscrapers. But there's still plenty of old buildings around.

FAQs

Canary Wharf is 129,000 jobs and it's the largest satellite business district. By % of jobs in the city center, both cities aren't that different from NYC.
No, the business district for Paris is La Defense. It's also not in Paris, let alone central Paris. Majority of large companies in France are located there, etc. etc. I called it the business/downtown area because in America, those are pretty synonymous, which is in complete contrast to most of Europe. Prague didn't even have a business district. London is less so. See Westminster. It has skyscrapers. Controversial, but they are there. Paris does not.

Completely different than Chicago, NYC, or DC where the business districts are also in and the heart of the cities, not in a suburb. It's not the only need, but it's a critical one, and it's one that Paris does not meet which is why the business district is located outside of Paris in the suburbs. Like anything, it's on a spectrum. Manhattan is pretty unique. It's not like most of the people in the Bay Area work in San Francisco, but that's still the financial/business district.

Last edited by Malloric; 05-16-2014 at 07:35 AM..
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Old 05-16-2014, 07:25 AM
 
2,971 posts, read 2,758,703 times
Reputation: 6574
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Why do complain about how inadequate a short web article is rather than actually look at the full study? It's strange way to make a judgement when more information is available.
I apologize, I didn't see the full report - (late night early morning cobwebs). The report summary was much more coherent than the web article. Report does echo my inherent thoughts - funny how we need in depth research to tell us sometimes what we'd think would be understood.
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Old 05-16-2014, 07:56 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,038 posts, read 102,742,261 times
Reputation: 33084
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Why do complain about how inadequate a short web article is rather than actually look at the full study? It's strange way to make a judgement when more information is available.
The OP posted that article. I consistently referred to the article. One should certainly be able to get some sense, from reading the article, of what the study was all about. The salient information should be there. There isn't even a link to the study; you have to copy/paste it.

Shoddy reporting, to say the least.
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Old 05-16-2014, 07:59 AM
 
Location: The City
22,343 posts, read 32,215,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
The OP posted that article. I consistently referred to the article. One should certainly be able to get some sense, from reading the article, of what the study was all about. The salient information should be there. Shoddy reporting, to say the least.
or basing interpretation on solely an article blurb could also be shoddy interpretation

especially when claims of "no facts or data" are proclaimed
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Old 05-16-2014, 08:01 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,038 posts, read 102,742,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
or basing interpretation on solely an article blurb could also be shoddy interpretation

especially when claims of "no facts or data" are proclaimed
It helps if the premise fits your biases.

Last edited by nei; 05-16-2014 at 08:33 AM.. Reason: discussing moderation
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Old 05-16-2014, 08:24 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,070,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
No, the business district for Paris is La Defense. It's also not in Paris, let alone central Paris. Majority of large companies in France are located there, etc. etc. I called it the business/downtown area because in America, those are pretty synonymous, which is in complete contrast to most of Europe. Prague didn't even have a business district. London is less so. See Westminster. It has skyscrapers. Controversial, but they are there. Paris does not.

Completely different than Chicago, NYC, or DC where the business districts are also in and the heart of the cities, not in a suburb. It's not the only need, but it's a critical one, and it's one that Paris does not meet which is why the business district is located outside of Paris in the suburbs. Like anything, it's on a spectrum. Manhattan is pretty unique. It's not like most of the people in the Bay Area work in San Francisco, but that's still the financial/business district.
I'm not following you. By employment numbers, the downtown area of Paris is in Central Paris. Ditto for London, I'm not seeing any functional difference between Chicago and London, if anything London is more centralized. The City of London has similar employment numbers to Downtown Manhattan (as in the Financial District). And then both cities have an even greater center city employment outside (Westminster for London, the larger Midtown/Midtown South for NYC). Functionally, both districts feel rather similar. The City of London has only 7400, making it rather similar use and obviously a business district.

La Defense has 150,000 workers, small compared to the actual Paris CBD. How is that any different from DC?

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...38939017181375

Last edited by nei; 05-16-2014 at 09:54 AM..
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Old 05-16-2014, 08:32 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,070,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
The OP posted that article. I consistently referred to the article. One should certainly be able to get some sense, from reading the article, of what the study was all about. The salient information should be there. There isn't even a link to the study; you have to copy/paste it.
The article refers to a study. I would have assumed if you were bothered by a lack information on how it worked, you'd look it before complaining about a lack of proof. The article was three paragraphs, there isn't much space for it prove anything.Sure, the article isn't great, that's why you go to the study. I often don't expect much of article summaries like these and if interested try to go straight to the actual source.

Generally the full information is in the study. Whether it's copy and paste (what's the big deal?), the link is available. Many other times, one has to dig a bit more. You can't complain information isn't there if you don't bother check. In any case, you were complaining about the lack of information as if it weren't available:

'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post

A little hard to build it that way. Just what is she proposing? It's hard to tell since there are NO hard stats in that article. We're just supposed to believe them.
No, you're supposed to go to effort and read the article if you care more. If you wanted to see stats, they're there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Maybe the older buildings are more likely to be office buildings and the newer buildings more likely to be places like hospitals, or factories. Who knows? We certainly don't, from reading that article.
How can you say "who knows" when you could check the study?

Last edited by nei; 05-16-2014 at 08:50 AM..
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Old 05-16-2014, 08:34 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,070,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
It helps if the premise fits your biases.
That makes no sense. Do you ignoring the study helps if the article fits your biases? Or not ignoring the study helps if the article fits your biases? The point is can't make claim there's no data when the data is available.
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Old 05-16-2014, 08:53 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,038 posts, read 102,742,261 times
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As I see it, these articles are written for two kinds of readers.

1. The person who is attracted to the article by the headline and reads it for the information contained within, hoping to learn something. This person may be reading the entire newspaper, and/or be tired after a long day at work and not interested in doing in depth research on the topic.

2. The person who wants to pursue the issue further.

Both readers should gain some knowledge from reading the article. One doesn't learn much from this article, just that one statistic that I posted. I'd be willing to bet that few people on this thread cut and pasted the link to the study and read it.

Here Young People Want Equality But Struggle To Discuss Bias : Code Switch : NPR is an example of a well written short article that also includes links if one wants to pursue the issue more. (Ignore the topic, just see how the numbers are presented.) You do learn something from reading the article itself.
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:00 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,070,148 times
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I'm not saying it was a good article, just that you can't complain more information isn't there. The article fails for group (1), however if they think it doesn't make sense, those readers don't enough to say it's invalid, they'd have to dig deeper.

I'm not interested in pursue the issue further, but I made no statements on it on this thread for that reason. If I was interested in the subject, I'd dig further before posting. Anyway, anyone interested enough to post on CD about it would fall in group (2). Anyone who don't bother at skim the study, IMO, shouldn't have posted on the article in this thread.
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