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Old 04-26-2015, 10:17 PM
 
1,709 posts, read 1,682,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
HSR, if it comes to the US, would definitely increase long distance commuting and sprawl. It has happened overseas. Particularly if the downtown areas near the stations are a good place to do business.
True, but it also increases centralization around the stations, which is better than decentralized car-centric expansion that eats up land at a quicker pace, causes more pollution, and is disconnected and inefficient.
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Old 04-26-2015, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,101 posts, read 16,159,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memph View Post
Any evidence of HSR causing sprawl overseas?
Yup. Spain had a lot of instaburbs pop up around formerly sleepy little towns.
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Old 04-27-2015, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,841 posts, read 7,360,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
True, many jobs are further spread out. But how much further out can they be until they are disconnected from the original metro area? How much further out can they be until they are no longer easily accessible?
Why do they have to be connected to the original metro area? Part of the reason that people and job centers move away from the urban core is costs, so if both business and residential costs are less further out, what's the point of being "connected" to the higher cost original?

"Easily accessible" by whom? There's already meeting technology available making face-to-face electronic meetings and telecommuting a reality for many businesses. Many companies already locate their back office operations from call centers to accounting to IT in lower cost places tens or hundreds of miles, perhaps more, from their corporate HQs that are located in high COL areas.
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Old 04-27-2015, 01:39 PM
 
2,553 posts, read 2,012,326 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
Why do they have to be connected to the original metro area? Part of the reason that people and job centers move away from the urban core is costs, so if both business and residential costs are less further out, what's the point of being "connected" to the higher cost original?
This is generally true. I would add some caveats. Businesses benefit from a certain density of people common to CBDs, and this density bonus is lost on business centers in the very-low-density suburbs. Being in the suburbs, if they are fairly sprawling, also adds back in other transportation costs as the car goes from a convenience to a necessity for mobility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
"Easily accessible" by whom? There's already meeting technology available making face-to-face electronic meetings and telecommuting a reality for many businesses. Many companies already locate their back office operations from call centers to accounting to IT in lower cost places tens or hundreds of miles, perhaps more, from their corporate HQs that are located in high COL areas.
Most businesses are SMBs and many are just outright small. And a huge chunk of our economy is small-scale retail and service. The benefits of cutting-edge telepresence tech are lost on these businesses. While someone like GSK, GM, or Dell has a lot to gain by this tech, an office of 10 or 20 people may not have a lot to gain or the costs may simply fail to pencil out. For most small businesses location--being "connected"-- still plays a role.
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Old 04-27-2015, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeconomist View Post
This is generally true. I would add some caveats. Businesses benefit from a certain density of people common to CBDs, and this density bonus is lost on business centers in the very-low-density suburbs. Being in the suburbs, if they are fairly sprawling, also adds back in other transportation costs as the car goes from a convenience to a necessity for mobility.



Most businesses are SMBs and many are just outright small. And a huge chunk of our economy is small-scale retail and service. The benefits of cutting-edge telepresence tech are lost on these businesses. While someone like GSK, GM, or Dell has a lot to gain by this tech, an office of 10 or 20 people may not have a lot to gain or the costs may simply fail to pencil out. For most small businesses location--being "connected"-- still plays a role.
OTOH, many small businesses can't afford the rents in these hipster TOD-type places.
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Old 04-27-2015, 08:28 PM
 
Location: State of Grace
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What generally happens - globally - is when urban sprawl threatens to go on forever, TPTB begin building upwards, instead of laterally. High-rises, not far from the cities, begin to dot the landscape, and before long they're commonplace and the urban sprawl is contained - at least somewhat.

The primary objective is to keep commuting time and costs reasonable so that people can still work in the cities.


Mahrie.
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Old 04-27-2015, 08:39 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 84,145,138 times
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My wandering is now large can cities get really? People go to suburbs to escape what ever they do not like about cities. The ultra rich have always had their country estates. As the skilled workforce has moved ;so have many companies because of demographic and cost. Leaving many cities with not enough tax base to keep up the infrastructure. Since WWII the expansion of power and transport as shifted many industry from the bounds of large cities.
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Old 04-28-2015, 08:51 AM
 
1,915 posts, read 2,058,643 times
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As long as underclass black criminality is condoned as some kind of "civil right". That's how long.
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Old 04-28-2015, 11:37 AM
 
2,553 posts, read 2,012,326 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
OTOH, many small businesses can't afford the rents in these hipster TOD-type places.

Did you change your name...again? This is very confusing.

Anyway, and ignoring the sleight about TOD being somehow only for the pejorative meaning of hipsters, I'm not talking SOHO or some crazy, high-rent or high-density location. Any downtown/CBD for a larger metro is applicable. I'd go so far as to say it doesn't even need to be in the CBD itself, but only in reasonable proximity to it to get the density bonus.

Once a business is further out and density gets below a threshold (which isn't a high bar to begin with), small businesses have significantly fewer connections with each other and fewer employees to choose from. Below some limit, there's just way less human activity and far fewer interactions. This is measurable and represents an opportunity cost for businesses, even small mom-and-pops.
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Old 04-28-2015, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,773 posts, read 9,888,646 times
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Sprawl will continue until so much arable land is destroyed that people start farming and harvesting pavement to eat.
...
Uh, wait.
That means...
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