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Old 05-19-2014, 04:51 PM
 
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I'm becoming more and more curious-how much longer can urban sprawl continue before it can stretch out no further? As suburbs are built further and further out, commutes will get longer and longer. The distance that this continuous urban land can spread increases as more and more jobs spread further out, and as highways are upgraded, but how much further can it go before it reaches critical mass? Eventually sprawl will have to reach a point where parts of the metro are so far from one another that they can no longer be considered suburbs or even exurbs. So how will urban sprawl play out once this "critical mass" is reached?
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:11 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
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Check some maps or urban area population & area changes. Here are some examples:

Discovering Urbanism: New Census Geographies Tell an Ambiguous Urban Story
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
I'm becoming more and more curious-how much longer can urban sprawl continue before it can stretch out no further? As suburbs are built further and further out, commutes will get longer and longer. The distance that this continuous urban land can spread increases as more and more jobs spread further out, and as highways are upgraded, but how much further can it go before it reaches critical mass? Eventually sprawl will have to reach a point where parts of the metro are so far from one another that they can no longer be considered suburbs or even exurbs. So how will urban sprawl play out once this "critical mass" is reached?
IMO, some big cities' MSAs are pretty spread out now, e.g. NY and Chicago. Not all those people work in the downtown.
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:48 PM
 
1,709 posts, read 1,528,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Check some maps or urban area population & area changes. Here are some examples:

Discovering Urbanism: New Census Geographies Tell an Ambiguous Urban Story
Interesting. It seems like the SF Bay Area already has reached "critical mass," as it didn't really expand much.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
IMO, some big cities' MSAs are pretty spread out now, e.g. NY and Chicago. Not all those people work in the downtown.
True, many jobs are further spread out. But how much further out can they be until they are disconnected from the original metro area? How much further out can they be until they are no longer easily accessible?
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:57 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
45,683 posts, read 38,837,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
IMO, some big cities' MSAs are pretty spread out now, e.g. NY and Chicago. Not all those people work in the downtown.
Of course, both of those are so spread out mainly because they contain far more people than most MSAs. Both of them have more job centralization than most, in particular NYC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
True, many jobs are further spread out. But how much further out can they be until they are disconnected from the original metro area? How much further out can they be until they are no longer easily accessible?
NYC reached that point a while ago, helped by geography. Someone living in Long Island can't access a suburban New Jersey job easily in any mode of transportation. Most can access a Manhattan job, though the commute will be long for many. The very outer edge of the metro doesn't have particularly convenient job access. In any case, the outer edge hasn't grown that much, in the 90s the city grew faster than the suburbs. In some directions, if NYC sprawls too far, the suburbs would be in another metropolitan area. At one time, the census considered Newark a separate metro, now it's part of the NYC metro. Fairfield County, CT is still separate.
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Old 05-19-2014, 06:47 PM
 
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Until the trip between one end of a metro area and the other is unbearable? Many say that is already the case. Long Island to New Jersey is one example. How about Oxnard to Anaheim? Incidentally some areas that we consider suburban are actually classified as their own MSA. Examples: Naperville/Aurora IL, Riverside/San Bernardino/Ontario CA, Ogden UT.

Last edited by pvande55; 05-19-2014 at 06:49 PM.. Reason: Correct Riverside
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Old 05-19-2014, 07:31 PM
 
9,194 posts, read 13,511,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
I'm becoming more and more curious-how much longer can urban sprawl continue before it can stretch out no further? As suburbs are built further and further out, commutes will get longer and longer. The distance that this continuous urban land can spread increases as more and more jobs spread further out, and as highways are upgraded, but how much further can it go before it reaches critical mass? Eventually sprawl will have to reach a point where parts of the metro are so far from one another that they can no longer be considered suburbs or even exurbs. So how will urban sprawl play out once this "critical mass" is reached?
In the Philadelphia area and Washington D.C, one thing you see is new centers within the suburban areas. King of Prussia, Great Valley, West Chester, Gaithersburg, Dulles, etc. Less so in NYC, however.
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Old 05-19-2014, 07:34 PM
 
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Hm, you know, I'm not really sure. All I know is I'm never going to live in an urban environment. That much I can tell you for sure....
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Old 05-19-2014, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
True, many jobs are further spread out. But how much further out can they be until they are disconnected from the original metro area? How much further out can they be until they are no longer easily accessible?
Accessible to who(m)? Define "easily".
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Old 05-19-2014, 08:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Accessible to who(m)? Define "easily".
Accessible/Easily = less than a 90 minute commute each way. There are various benchmarks (30 minutes, 40, 60) so you can pick whichever but after you pass each one you lose a greater % of people willing to make the commute.

The issue is that as you get further away from the core job density decreases so you wind up with development that is less and less dense as you move out from the core and/or you have people commuting to NYC from Pennsylvania and Massachusetts or people in the Inland Empire commuting to jobs in West LA.

The formation of edge cities doesn't usually represent an increase in job density for whatever suburban county they're in . . . it's just the magnet for business activity in the subregion.
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