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Old 05-31-2014, 07:25 AM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,956,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
The FHA practiced discrimination. They did not invent it (no claimed it did so) but it was more influential than one bank.

Between 1930 and 1950, three out of five homes purchased in the United States were financed by FHA, yet less than two percent of the FHA loans were made to non-white home buyers.

I suppose you could argue the latter part could be just from black poverty, but it does sound rather extreme.
In 1940 african-americans were just under 10% of the population.

So if 2% of the loans are going to black households that actually seems like quite a lot considering how many people lost their homes during the 1930s (homeownership bottomed out around 43% in 1942)

Especially considering that nearly 2/3 of the african-american population still lived in the south and considering that even in the north and west black poverty was higher than average.
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Old 05-31-2014, 07:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
I'd guess the effects of redlining were different when homeownership rates were low, not sure what the FHA did with rental units, if anything. From the link above, the NYC urban area's homeownership rate was 32% in 1950, Philadelphia was 62%.
I don't think the FHA financed rentals back then and I'm 99.5% certain they don't do it now . . . generally speaking the modern FHA loan is just for first-time buyers and if you rent out a house that you bought with one of their loans you can get in trouble if you didn't live in it for at least a year before you rented it out.

It's Fannie Mae that covers financing for rental properties and it was an Obama era rule change just a few years ago that extended that financing to mixed-use properties.
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Inis Fada
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
Hmm. Long Island has few HOAs, definitely the racially segregated housing patterns predated HOAs. Levittown, NY didn't permit blacks to move in. It did have plenty of "white ethnics" from the start. It's diversified in a way common to much of the NYC Metros: others moved in, but no black people. 81% non-hispanic white, less than 1% black.
The Town of Hempstead -- in which Levittown, NY is situated -- was complicit in ensuring Levitt homes had race-restrictive covenants. Without those covenants, Levittown would not have been approved.

As a child of an Irish Catholic and a white Hispanic, the only time I ever experienced racism was in Levittown after we moved in in 1970. One neighbor tooknto calling my mother a dirty s**c and other worse things, we had the NCPD get involved...the harassment got so bad. She refused to let my sister and I in her yard to play with the neighborhood kids. She deliberately enticed the kids into her yard with offers of ice pops or cookies; she stood like a sentinal at the gate and physically moved my sister and I out of the yard. She would close the gate in our faces. 40+ years ago and I remember the pain all too well.

We moved out after about 4 years.
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:47 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Levittown is 11.5% hispanic today.
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Inis Fada
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Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
Section 8 wasn't the cause of any of that. You can argue that it might have accelerated the decline but the decline was already happening.

If it wasn't a declining neighborhood you and all of your siblings probably wouldn't have moved away in the first place. If it wasn't a declining neighborhood some investor probably wouldn't have had the idea to buy up a bunch of properties on the cheap and rent them out as Section 8 (because they couldn't attract better market rate rents).
It is a bit of a jump to assume the other poster's siblings moved because the area was declining. People tend to move to other places after college. Many of my friends moved either out of the town we grew up in for areas closer to their employment, closer to their spouse's family, or off Long Island completely. I'm still on LI, but 45 miles east of where I attended HS -- I settled near the university I attended. My sister and her husband moved out of state for a career opportunity -- a lot of people we know have. In no way does this translate into our neighborhood declining.

Keeping with the thread, when my parents sold their Massapequa house, the couple who bought it claimed they were moving from Baldwin as the area was seeing an increase in the black population. While red-lining had been abolished 3 decades earlier, white flight was still occurring in 1996.
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:21 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
Keeping with the thread, when my parents sold their Massapequa house, the couple who bought it claimed they were moving from Baldwin as the area was seeing an increase in the black population. While red-lining had been abolished 3 decades earlier, white flight was still occurring in 1996.
At least they're honest about it. A bit surprised people would be that open about it in 1996, but maybe I shouldn't be.
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Inis Fada
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
Levittown is 11.5% hispanic today.
And according to the census bureau, 16.9% of the USA is Hispanic. It looks as though Levittown is on its way to someday reflecting this.

Yet one thing which needs to be considered in the almost half century since the elimination of red-lining is that people tend to gravitate toward those they share common bonds with either ethnically, racially, religious, or economically. Many people look at the black/white of this, but somehow overlook the fact that there are communities on LI which have gradually changed from white to Asian and East Indian as older white homeowners either died or moved in retirement, or whose school district reputation was stellar. No one steered anyone to these areas based on race.
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Inis Fada
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
At least they're honest about it. A bit surprised people would be that open about it in 1996, but maybe I shouldn't be.
My old neighborhood was 97.32% white as of the 2000 census and I used that as it was closest to the 1996 comment. The area was largely Italian, followed by a good-sized population of Jews. I was a minority there, too, but with an Italian sounding last name, life was easier.

One very vivid memory I have from the area was around 1976 when a black family moved in. A cross was burned on their lawn. It wasn't the KKK...Massapequa had some rather nefarious mob characters, with a major mob boss living on the water.


To this day the area is still in the 90% white range.
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Old 06-17-2014, 12:33 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
It is a bit of a jump to assume the other poster's siblings moved because the area was declining. People tend to move to other places after college. Many of my friends moved either out of the town we grew up in for areas closer to their employment, closer to their spouse's family, or off Long Island completely. I'm still on LI, but 45 miles east of where I attended HS -- I settled near the university I attended. My sister and her husband moved out of state for a career opportunity -- a lot of people we know have. In no way does this translate into our neighborhood declining.

Keeping with the thread, when my parents sold their Massapequa house, the couple who bought it claimed they were moving from Baldwin as the area was seeing an increase in the black population. While red-lining had been abolished 3 decades earlier, white flight was still occurring in 1996.
It's a bit of a jump to call one couple's racist remarks a sign of "white flight".
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Old 06-17-2014, 04:55 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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While it's hard to prove "white flight", looking at site that displays historical racial % of census tracts, Baldwin did undergo a rather drastic demographic shift. In 1980, the northernmost census tract was about 2/3rd non-hispanic white, the rest 90%+ white non-hispanic. The neighborhoods to the west (Rockville Centre and Lynbrook) were roughly similar to the "white" (rest of) part of Baldwin. The neighborhoods to the north and east had a large minority population already (Roosevelt and much of Freeport). From 1980 to 1990, there wasn't too much change. But from 1990 to 2010, the white non-hispanic % of Baldwin dropped fast to around 45%, which the areas to the west only changed by 10-15%. The least white census tract in 1980 (2/3rds) had the most drastic drop: only 17% white non-hispanic today.

Perhaps for some reason whites lost interest in living in Baldwin compared to the neighborhoods to the west. But why the change? The housing stock of Baldwin looks a bit cheaper looking, but the difference isn't huge. A reasonable explanation is "white flight", especially since the areas that had the strongest drop in white non-hispanic % were those that were closest to areas with a large minority population in 1980. As in: a good predictor of where the biggest white population drop would be is the places near existing areas with a large minority population.

One of the more striking examples of white flight in recent times in Canarsie, Brooklyn. In 1980, most of it was 90%+ white, with the NE corner 2/3rd white. In 1990, around 80% white and the NE corner maybe 30% white. By 2000, almost all of Canarsie was under 20% white. Maybe the 90s the natives decided it was suddenly the time that they were tired of the big city. More like an influx of black newcomers was the trigger.

Canarsie Real Estate Office Is Firebombed Again - NYTimes.com

A Brooklyn real estate office, which had sold homes to black and Hispanic families in the mostly white section of Canarsie, was firebombed early this morning for the third time in three months, the police said.

The latest incident occurred shortly after midnight at the Fillmore Real Estate agency at 9301 Flatlands Avenue, which has been under a court order to show homes to black and Hispanic customers.
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