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Old 05-26-2014, 06:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
Pretty much everything Robert Moses did was to try to keep blacks and whites apart. He wasn't alone in the power structure of metro NY in that regard, not in the 50s anyway.

As soon as black vets started coming back from Korea, GI Bill in hand, a lot of the BS with HOAs was struck down in the courts and those early decisions in NJ and NY were the precedent for most other states . . . but if you're black in Brooklyn or Queens in the early 60s and most of your family also lives there how much are you really going to want to be the pioneer out in Ronkonkoma?
That's if Black Vets were able to actually use the GI Bill and if they were to go to Long Island, they were probably looking at places like Freeport, Roosevelt, Hempstead, Baldwin, Lakeview, North Amityville, the Belmont Park section of West Babylon, Wyandanch, Wheatley Heights, Gordon Heights, Brentwood, Central Islip, New Cassel, Glen Cove, Huntington, etc. With some of those communities, there are certain sections that they were probably steered into. With Long Island, a school district can be diverse, but the housing patterns are segregated. For instance, the Malverne school district is a mistly Black, but diverse district where Malverne is largely White, but Lakeview is largely Black. This is pretty common for school districts with diverse student enrollments, with some exceptions.

Here is some info on the Malverne school district: Malverne Union Free School District
Malverne Union Free School District Population and Races

Lakeview, NY
Lakeview, NY Population and Races

Malverne, NY
Malverne, NY Population and Races

http://people.hofstra.edu/alan_j_sin..._iii_3d_26.pdf
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Old 05-26-2014, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Anchored in Phoenix
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On the other side of the coin, the government's Section 8 policy destroyed my white parents' neighborhood in the 70s and brought crime and drugs into it. The house value dropped like a rock. I had to sell the house in the year 2000 after my parents passed away. Split the meager proceeds with my siblings. What a dump the neighborhood still is.
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Old 05-26-2014, 05:04 PM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,958,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
On the other side of the coin, the government's Section 8 policy destroyed my white parents' neighborhood in the 70s and brought crime and drugs into it. The house value dropped like a rock. I had to sell the house in the year 2000 after my parents passed away. Split the meager proceeds with my siblings. What a dump the neighborhood still is.
Section 8 wasn't the cause of any of that. You can argue that it might have accelerated the decline but the decline was already happening.

If it wasn't a declining neighborhood you and all of your siblings probably wouldn't have moved away in the first place. If it wasn't a declining neighborhood some investor probably wouldn't have had the idea to buy up a bunch of properties on the cheap and rent them out as Section 8 (because they couldn't attract better market rate rents).
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Old 05-26-2014, 05:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
That's if Black Vets were able to actually use the GI Bill
I'm not that interested in LI demographics but the pattern there is only slightly more egregious than the rest of the Northeast.

In any case, as I said in the post you quoted, most of the access issues had been solved through the courts by the time black vets started returning from Korea (the first war where the military was desegregated) - at least in most northeastern states anyway. The problem in moving to the suburbs was the hostility encountered by black families when moving to these new suburban developments.
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Old 05-26-2014, 05:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
I'm not that interested in LI demographics but the pattern there is only slightly more egregious than the rest of the Northeast.

In any case, as I said in the post you quoted, most of the access issues had been solved through the courts by the time black vets started returning from Korea (the first war where the military was desegregated) - at least in most northeastern states anyway. The problem in moving to the suburbs was the hostility encountered by black families when moving to these new suburban developments.
That is actually why I mentioned those places, as they were the exceptions on Long Island, due to Black migrants moving to those places directly decades before the war and may have had long time Black populations.

You may have had it where you had a family or two and it was fine, but more than that may cause an issue. From looking at the area I live in, many times if Black people lived outside of the city, you may have some sprinkled among small/rural towns or in satellite cities.
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Old 05-28-2014, 10:16 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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This is a good article on the subject that provides a better explanation on redlining specifically than the original article:

Redlining: A Clarification | City Notes
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Old 05-28-2014, 10:54 PM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,958,188 times
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
This is a good article on the subject that provides a better explanation on redlining specifically than the original article:

Redlining: A Clarification | City Notes
This doesn't really clarify anything. It just repeats TNC's hyperbole.

I don't see why people feel the need to talk vaguely about this sort of thing - all the data is there, we live in the internet age - if what you're saying is true then just reference it.

(I've read a bit of the different FHA underwriting manuals from the 1930s and while it's clearly segregationist there's nothing in it to suggest that they would never underwrite loans to black people simply because they were black - that was the banks' doing.)
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Old 05-29-2014, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,171 posts, read 29,703,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
This doesn't really clarify anything. It just repeats TNC's hyperbole.

I don't see why people feel the need to talk vaguely about this sort of thing - all the data is there, we live in the internet age - if what you're saying is true then just reference it.

(I've read a bit of the different FHA underwriting manuals from the 1930s and while it's clearly segregationist there's nothing in it to suggest that they would never underwrite loans to black people simply because they were black - that was the banks' doing.)
The underwriting standards were not developing with free market vision, the feral housing policy shaped the banks lending decisions so they were complicit in the issue.

Here is an overview on all of the ways the FHA didn't bother to work on the Fair Housing Act: Living Apart: How the Government Betrayed a Landmark Civil Rights Law - ProPublica
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Old 05-29-2014, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
328 posts, read 254,327 times
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Quote:
and while it's clearly segregationist there's nothing in it to suggest that they would never underwrite loans to black people simply because they were black - that was the banks' doing.)
You say that as if segregationist is a "OK" thing. C'mon. The banks worked in concert with the federal policy - each influenced each other.

Integration would not have solved all of our country's problems, but we sure wouldn't have as many issues we have today.
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Old 05-29-2014, 09:15 PM
 
8,328 posts, read 14,574,087 times
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yeah, it's the fact that they were segregationist that is the crux of the problem, not whether they would have never underwritten loans to black people because they were black. Even segregationists didn't think that banks shouldn't make home loans to black people--unless it was to buy a home in a white neighborhood.
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