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Old 06-01-2014, 10:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
At commute hours.

I don't work a typical 8-5 shift, so I'll often be taking BART back in the early afternoon. It's not much different that the bus demographic then at least until you get past Oakland. It's pretty mixed. Depends on the bus, of course. The demographic is pretty different. But in general, people of the low socioeconomic spectrum just don't cause me great amounts of fear like they do for you so it isn't an issue. Interestingly, a lot of the buses in Manhattan tend to be the opposite where the well-heeled ride the buses and the subway is more mixed. No different than anywhere else. Buses coming from West Seattle/White Center look completely different than buses running from Redmond to Seattle. The demographic reflects the people that live in the area.
I think BART and passenger rail in general attracts a more diverse demographic, so you have a good mix of income levels and backgrounds on the trains that are well represented, whereas on buses lower socioeconomic levels are often overly represented (not true in every case but generally speaking), which doesn't help the public perception of them . In terms of safety, it probably helps passengers to feel safer knowing that all the trains and stations in the BART system are regularly patrolled by their own police force. But really your chances of getting into a serious car accident are probably substantially greater than becoming a victim of crime either on the bus or the train.
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Old 06-02-2014, 01:31 AM
 
Location: Dangling from a mooses antlers
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Only wealthy people and politicans should be allowed to own personal automobiles. Regular people should be made to use cattle car mass transit or bicycles. We just can't allow ordinary citizens to have this kind of freedom anymore. Cause if they experience freedom they'll just want more. That's not a good thing.
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Old 06-02-2014, 03:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffnecked View Post
Only wealthy people and politicans should be allowed to own personal automobiles. Regular people should be made to use cattle car mass transit or bicycles. We just can't allow ordinary citizens to have this kind of freedom anymore. Cause if they experience freedom they'll just want more. That's not a good thing.
LOL. But politicians and, especially, those who run the transit agencies, should have to ride it. Maybe it will run better. I remember a Chicago Transit Authority head started riding, and not just the line from his home to the loop. He found a lot of problems and fixed some.
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Old 06-02-2014, 04:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffnecked View Post
Only wealthy people and politicans should be allowed to own personal automobiles. Regular people should be made to use cattle car mass transit or bicycles. We just can't allow ordinary citizens to have this kind of freedom anymore. Cause if they experience freedom they'll just want more. That's not a good thing.
The US is by far the most autocentric nation in the world, with more cars per person and more roads and highways built for cars than any other on earth. With one of the lowest amounts of funding for transit in the industrial western world. So I'm not sure what you're whining about?

Just because a country has lots of cars has nothing to do with its level of 'freedom.' Just look at China. The country with the most explosive growth in private automobiles in recent years, with new car sales exceeding that of the US, but still has one of the most authoritarian governments on earth. If 'freedom' is measured by how many cars a country has then communist China should be one of the freeest on earth! Going by your peculiar, empty definition of the word freedom that is.
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Old 06-02-2014, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
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Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
The US is by far the most autocentric nation in the world, with more cars per person and more roads and highways built for cars than any other on earth. With one of the lowest amounts of funding for transit in the industrial western world. So I'm not sure what you're whining about?

Just because a country has lots of cars has nothing to do with its level of 'freedom.' Just look at China. The country with the most explosive growth in private automobiles in recent years, with new car sales exceeding that of the US, but still has one of the most authoritarian governments on earth. If 'freedom' is measured by how many cars a country has then communist China should be one of the freeest on earth! Going by your peculiar, empty definition of the word freedom that is.
Actually it isn't. There are countries with more cars per capita.

Actually, China barely breaks the top 100 in cars per capita. So no, it wouldn't. Of course, if you were to just look at correlation and assume causation as is popular here, China has been becoming much more of a free society at the same time the automobile boom has been occurring there.
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Old 06-02-2014, 12:55 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Actually it isn't. There are countries with more cars per capita.
where?
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Old 06-02-2014, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
where?
Western Europe.

Motor vehicles (per 1,000 people) | Data | Table
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Old 06-02-2014, 05:51 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Ok. But they're all wealthy statelets. Monaco, Liechtenstein and San Marino. It's interesting that Puerto Rico is as higher than Spain, France or Japan despite being much poorer than them. I'd guess American planning is a factor.
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Old 06-02-2014, 10:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Actually it isn't. There are countries with more cars per capita.
Two small obscure rich states have more cars per capita than us? I don't know if Monaco could be called a country but the idea that we in North America are somehow less free because we lack access to private automobiles, which we do not by any stretch of the imagination, is a tad ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Actually, China barely breaks the top 100 in cars per capita. So no, it wouldn't. Of course, if you were to just look at correlation and assume causation as is popular here, China has been becoming much more of a free society at the same time the automobile boom has been occurring there.
China has some of the world's worst traffic congestion. It is not uncommon for drivers in the capital Beijing for example to be stuck on a freeway in bumper to bumper traffic for hours at a time, sometimes even days. While having to breathe in the worst air pollution the world has ever seen. On some days you can't see 10 feet in front of you because the air quality is so bad. That is not my idea of freedom. China may have more economic freedom these days but let's not confuse economic freedom with political freedom.
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Old 06-09-2014, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Duluth, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCMA View Post
However I'd argue that living in or around the soul-eviscerating, mediocre, culturally-deprived, strip-mall-oriented, bike-lane-less ... little city where I work would kill me faster than my 45-minute car commute back to a place I love living, where, unfortunately, there are virtually no jobs.
This gets to the heart of the article linked by the OP; people are making the decision to 'drive until you qualify', not fully cognizant of the true cost that a long commute has on one's quality of life. You might have an amazing spread of land way out there, but you're never going to see it in daylight for days at a time. The precious few social interactions you'll have outside of the home will be at work; you might get a couple of those friends to come out to visit once or twice a year. Work becomes your life. Your work day may only be 8, maybe 9, hours at the office, but then add on half that time for the travel. Your day is done. No errands can be done, unless they can wait for the weekend, or you do them right after leaving the office.

I know this first-hand; I did a 150-mile round trip 4 or 5 days a week for over 10 years. We're talking close to half a million miles driven in all that time.

I truly don't begrudge someone wanting to live the best of both those worlds. Good luck to them. But I do implore those people to think things through beyond just the lower mortgage payment. BTW, keep a cooler in your car so that any frozen food you buy in town doesn't thaw completely by the time you get home.
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