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Old 06-27-2014, 10:56 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
However, auto accidents are a much more probable event.
Oh, I totally agree! But this kidnapping stuff is pretty ingrained in some people.
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:57 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
And the transit system in Pittsburgh, like most cities which aren't NYC, is pretty pisspoor at traveling between "spokes" - you can get to Downtown or the university district (Oakland) easily from almost everywhere, but you can't get from neighborhood to neighborhood without a transfer. Not being able to catch a ride sometimes would just be horribly inconvenient.
While rail systems are almost always (mostly) hub and spoke, it's common for larger cities with good bus service to have it on something grid-like, so somewhat useful for neighborhood to neighborhood connections. Geography combined with a lack of a grid probably makes Pittsburgh a bit worse together with lower densities compared to say Boston or Chicago. San Francisco has a bus system with good coverage, just slow.
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Old 06-27-2014, 03:41 PM
 
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I don't think suburbs will look much different until maybe 50-100 years from now (wish I could come back to this post in 2114 and see if I was wrong or right!) when things like automated cars and smart houses are common place. Specific segments of the population will spring for automated cars and houses faster than others. That happens all the time (early adopters). But when the technology becomes ubiquitous enough that you see those things in working class or decaying suburbs is when we will see the new change. Of course, 2014's upper class suburb could become 2064's ghetto. Who knows.

I wonder how society would handle automated cars? Would they implement Quality of Service and if it automatically detects the road on your trip is not good (for whatever) reason will it refuse an override from you? For example, now if you travel home from the store you can take the scenic route to enjoy the weather or visit a friend but the "correct" route to get you home wouldn't take you the other way. Would there be an override like today's GPS or would the car be strict based on its monitoring tools? Also, what happens if one would break down in the middle of the street? Does it make an automated service call or would you have call AAA to move it out of traffic? Would today's car dealerships fix automated cars?

I think automated cars with radar and positioning sensors and "talking" to other cars would help with gridlock and traffic issues particularly merging.
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Old 06-27-2014, 06:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
A "walkable" neighborhood doesn't alter weather conditions, alter laws of physics, nor make origin closer to destination.
You can alter weather conditions--by providing shade trees and rain shelter, to make sidewalks more walkable on hot or rainy days.

You can alter the laws of physics--by making streets narrow and hard to speed in, and designed for multiple modes of use, you reduce the potential of auto accidents to injure people while still allowing cars freedom of movement.

You can make origins closer to destinations--by encouraging mixed use and higher densities that let you put more origins and more destinations in the same area.
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Old 06-27-2014, 08:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunjee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre View Post
Interesting picture of what might be. I really wonder about the last part, though (in bold). Up until a generation or two ago, teenagers, and even much younger children, walked to the homes of friends in their own neighborhoods, or would get together and roam the neighborhood in groups. There are probably a number of reasons that there is less of this kind of socializing now, but I suspect that at present the culture surrounding electronic communications is a significant reason.

Unless kids emerge from their deep immersion in this electronic world, I don't know that they'll be more likely to go visit friends face-to-face. If a kid today won't walk a couple of blocks to a friend's house because he'd rather send a quick text message, I don't see why the same kid would be any more inclined to get into a car and ride to the home of a friend who lived across town.

The freedom to do so might be one. No public transportation to deal with. Door to door travel.
Of course, we're totally envisioning privilege here. This service will cost money. There would be control though. Online scheduling would only transport to the specified address with credit card billing. Kids are less restricted with cash for a bus, which they could take anyeffinwhere.
However, my point was that kids already have the freedom to get together with friends in their own neighborhoods just by walking a short distance, yet choose to take the quick route of sending a text. It could be that they would use a driverless car to get to big places that might be destinations in themselves (malls, sports events, movies), but I doubt that the same kid who would rather send a text than walk to a friend's house a block or two away is going to go to the trouble of waiting for a car and riding across town just for a visit.

Interesting idea about the credit card billing, and destinations specified ahead of time online.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunjee View Post
This is all speculative fiction in the end. Fun though. Other effects on suburban life would perhaps be less parental engagement in extracurricular activities, if they can just trundle kids off in a driverless cab rather than transporting them.
Interesting thought. This probably would not be such a good thing for the parent-child relationship, but yes, it could happen.
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Old 06-27-2014, 08:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre View Post
However, my point was that kids already have the freedom to get together with friends in their own neighborhoods just by walking a short distance, yet choose to take the quick route of sending a text. It could be that they would use a driverless car to get to big places that might be destinations in themselves (malls, sports events, movies), but I doubt that the same kid who would rather send a text than walk to a friend's house a block or two away is going to go to the trouble of waiting for a car and riding across town just for a visit.

Interesting idea about the credit card billing, and destinations specified ahead of time online.



Interesting thought. This probably would not be such a good thing for the parent-child relationship, but yes, it could happen.
I'm just thinking about my nephew and his friends. They go to each others' houses all the time so electronics immersion doesn't seem as huge an issue to me anyway. In fact, my brother-in-law can get mean and just throw the kids out when he's had enough! Now if we're talking about sitting around playing video games (albeit together)--yeah. Immersion.

A great benefit would be to the elderly and infirm. There's much testimonial about empty nesters downsizing to the city. I personally enjoy the city but I do think it's an overstated trend. A home for decades is a home, not a house. From the perspective of a gardener, these fruit trees, my fruit trees...how could I leave them? Because I can't leave the house anymore in a driving environment I suppose I could fathom such a decision. But not willingly or happily.
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Old 06-28-2014, 05:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunjee View Post
I'm just thinking about my nephew and his friends. They go to each others' houses all the time so electronics immersion doesn't seem as huge an issue to me anyway. In fact, my brother-in-law can get mean and just throw the kids out when he's had enough! Now if we're talking about sitting around playing video games (albeit together)--yeah. Immersion.

A great benefit would be to the elderly and infirm. There's much testimonial about empty nesters downsizing to the city. I personally enjoy the city but I do think it's an overstated trend. A home for decades is a home, not a house. From the perspective of a gardener, these fruit trees, my fruit trees...how could I leave them? Because I can't leave the house anymore in a driving environment I suppose I could fathom such a decision. But not willingly or happily.
Great point about older home owners. Being able to get around without having to drive oneself could be a boon for older folks who hated the idea of leaving the homes where they'd lived for years, and where they had cared for their property.

Interesting. While reading the first paragraph I was thinking that maybe you were too young to have experienced a time when it was the norm for all kids to roam their neighborhoods. Now your nephews are exceptions to a certain degree. It's not that today's kids never play outside, just that viewing the whole neighborhood as both playground and social center is not the way today's kids generally do things to the degree that kids used to do. From your second paragraph, it sounds as though maybe you are old enough to remember that time.

Going toward the opposite end of the age scale, though, again, you may really be onto something with the benefit that driverless cars could provide for older suburbanites.
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Old 06-28-2014, 06:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre View Post
Great point about older home owners. Being able to get around without having to drive oneself could be a boon for older folks who hated the idea of leaving the homes where they'd lived for years, and where they had cared for their property.

Interesting. While reading the first paragraph I was thinking that maybe you were too young to have experienced a time when it was the norm for all kids to roam their neighborhoods. Now your nephews are exceptions to a certain degree. It's not that today's kids never play outside, just that viewing the whole neighborhood as both playground and social center is not the way today's kids generally do things to the degree that kids used to do. From your second paragraph, it sounds as though maybe you are old enough to remember that time.

Going toward the opposite end of the age scale, though, again, you may really be onto something with the benefit that driverless cars could provide for older suburbanites.
It may or may not be that the families I know are not the norm. They're all very active in sports and activities. They range from economically transitional to privileged households. Not all of the kids are going to college. Not all of their families can afford it. The kids have electronic distractions but are social. I can only attest intimately to what I know intimately.
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Old 06-28-2014, 10:26 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,649,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre View Post
Great point about older home owners. Being able to get around without having to drive oneself could be a boon for older folks who hated the idea of leaving the homes where they'd lived for years, and where they had cared for their property.

Interesting. While reading the first paragraph I was thinking that maybe you were too young to have experienced a time when it was the norm for all kids to roam their neighborhoods. Now your nephews are exceptions to a certain degree. It's not that today's kids never play outside, just that viewing the whole neighborhood as both playground and social center is not the way today's kids generally do things to the degree that kids used to do. From your second paragraph, it sounds as though maybe you are old enough to remember that time.

Going toward the opposite end of the age scale, though, again, you may really be onto something with the benefit that driverless cars could provide for older suburbanites.
I actually think these driverless cars would be more beneficial to the elderly than to teens. As I said upthread, I don't think too many parents would give their kids charge of an expensive vehicle.
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Old 06-30-2014, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I actually think these driverless cars would be more beneficial to the elderly than to teens. As I said upthread, I don't think too many parents would give their kids charge of an expensive vehicle.
My thinking is basically the main reason why parents don't trust their kids with their own cars (and often buy them a "beater") is because teens are usually horrible drivers for the first couple years, and are highly likely to wreck their cars. Self-driving cars eliminate this risk, since no matter who is in the car, it would drive identically.

Of course, teens could use the car to get to wherever they want, which could theoretically worry parents, but keep in mind parents would have two strategies here.

1. They could actually program in a list of "approved locations" that they'll let the car take their child. I'd see this being what parents would generally do with tweens and younger teens.
2. All self-driving cars would have GPS, so parents could always go back and see the ride history of their children and make sure they weren't going anywhere they weren't supposed to.
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