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Old 06-27-2014, 07:40 PM
 
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I've joked for years that the sound barriers that are being installed on many urban and semi urban freeways make a very effective DMZ to separate parts of the city from more affluent areas. They also do an excellent job of isolating cars on the highway from the nearby neighborhoods. The lonelyist place in the world to break down maybe the ramps of an urban Interstate to Interstate exchange late at night.
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Old 06-27-2014, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidValleyDad View Post
I've joked for years that the sound barriers that are being installed on many urban and semi urban freeways make a very effective DMZ to separate parts of the city from more affluent areas. They also do an excellent job of isolating cars on the highway from the nearby neighborhoods. The lonelyist place in the world to break down maybe the ramps of an urban Interstate to Interstate exchange late at night.
The freeway I mentioned, 580, is a very special one. Trucks are banned from most of the freeway in Oakland (but OK in other sections outside of town). Conveniently, it serves as the border of "rich" and "poor." The trucks are limited to the other freeway, about 4 miles west, that goes through industrial and poorer areas of town.

I live "above the freeway" aka the so-called "rich part." But the "below the freeway" section near me actually borders downtown. So it went from decent to gentrifying. Particularly since Whole Foods opened up. It is pretty mixed income, and mixed ethnicity, but the average income is ticking up. Interestingly, the related census tracts have about a 15k delta in average income, but a 3 or 5 percentage point delta in college education. I think the poorer part is at 35 or 35% it is a bit over 40% in my section. All much higher than the state and national averages.
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Old 06-28-2014, 07:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by shooter2219 View Post
I dont live in a big city right now so I'll just use cities Ive lived in and cities im closest to......

St Louis: I-44 is roughly the dividing line, both class and race wise. Most of the poor and most of hte blacks live north of it while most middle class and most white residents live south of it.
Actually, for StL the "iron curtain" is Delmar Blvd. Almost without fail, the areas south of Delmar are wealthier and predominantly white, while the areas north of Delmar are poorer, high-crime, and predominantly black. However, there are a lot of poor sandwiched between I-44 and I-64/Highway 40 (excluding Lafayette Square), so I-44 is somewhat of a dividing line; it's just not the iron curtain of StL.
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Old 06-28-2014, 06:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by shooter2219 View Post

Boston: the orange MBTA line
My initial thought was that you didn't have that quite right. The orange line is more a through corridor that connects some of the more faded sections, rather than a dividing line. The more I thought about it, the more it occurred to me that you did have something there. The orange line is somewhat of a dividing line, though only roughly. To the east and southeast of the orange line you've got a number of very sketchy areas in parts of Dorchester, Roxbury, and Mattapan, while to the west there are quite a few middle-class and even upper-crust neighborhoods in W. Roxbury and Jamaica Plain.

The reason I say that the orange line is only a rough dividing line is that much of Boston is a patchwork of neighborhoods in terms of general feel and how "nice" or not the neighborhoods would generally be considered to be. I mentioned Jamaica Plain as a section with some very nice local areas, but other neighborhoods in J.P. are decidedly on the sketchy side. Similarly, Dorchester has some bad areas, but some nice spots scattered around as well. In some parts of Boston you can walk down the same street a few blocks in opposite directions and find neighborhoods that are just about polar opposites of each other.

As Arjo points out about Philly (post 3), gentrification in Boston is happening so rapidly that it further complicates attempts to characterize entire sections of the city.
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Old 06-28-2014, 06:08 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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North of the Charles, the mess of Orange Line, mainline rail, I-93 and a busy arterial or two is rather big barrier.
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Old 06-28-2014, 07:39 PM
 
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Nei, good point about north of the Charles. And in that area there is some noticeable difference in character between the areas to the east and west of that transportation complex. You've got faded old areas like East Boston, Revere, Everett, Chelsea, and Malden to the east, and to the west a lot more middle-class areas, and neighborhoods populated by professionals (Cambridge, Arlington, gentrified sections of Somerville).

I wonder whether that web of rail and road transport is a boundary or more of a marker between those areas of different character. With or without any zone of separation from areas to the west, you might expect some of those places to the east to be kind of gritty, being that several of those cities are located in the industrial area that borders the working part of the harbor, plus East Boston has the issue of airport noise. It's interesting to speculate, but difficult or impossible to really know, whether areas with a faded look would extend farther west without that transportation web effectively separating the area immediately to the west from that zone around the upper harbor.
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Old 06-29-2014, 02:52 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
I
Manhattan at one time had 96th street east of the park (the dividing line between East Harlem and the Upper East Side), but even East Harlem is being gentrified now. On the west side, 10th avenue once separated industrial from residential/retail (and I believe 9th avenue did so before that), but this is no longer so.
This singer (who just died) thinks the divide is 110th street. Can't be too far west, or it's just the boundary between the Upper West Side and Columbia's fief. East of that it's the border with Central Park, so can't be that. So maybe he's talking just going through in East Harlem and not as a border.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU1z5SGMdQE
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Old 06-29-2014, 03:00 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Originally Posted by ogre View Post
Nei, good point about north of the Charles. And in that area there is some noticeable difference in character between the areas to the east and west of that transportation complex. You've got faded old areas like East Boston, Revere, Everett, Chelsea, and Malden to the east, and to the west a lot more middle-class areas, and neighborhoods populated by professionals (Cambridge, Arlington, gentrified sections of Somerville).

I wonder whether that web of rail and road transport is a boundary or more of a marker between those areas of different character. With or without any zone of separation from areas to the west, you might expect some of those places to the east to be kind of gritty, being that several of those cities are located in the industrial area that borders the working part of the harbor, plus East Boston has the issue of airport noise. It's interesting to speculate, but difficult or impossible to really know, whether areas with a faded look would extend farther west without that transportation web effectively separating the area immediately to the west from that zone around the upper harbor.
Closest to the Charles, the east side of that rail/road web is mostly gentrified Charlestown, closer to the docks. To the west is mostly gentrified Somerville/Cambridge. But East Somerville is barely gentrified. I didn't mean that the boundary marked any difference in character, just acted as a barrier between travel and local perception in neighborhood separation. I didn't realize this thread was meant to focus on character. The bolded area all had being near the universities as a gentrification starting point. Even if many there aren't connected to the university, the existing university population created a magnet in having a lot of amnetities focus there which encourage more to move there (Kendall Square has a high tech job center doesn't hurt). The Red Line is an additional boost for those parts near it, I wonder what the new Green Line will do to Somerville.
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Old 06-29-2014, 04:03 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Denver: In north Denver, I-25 is a divider, though not an "iron curtain". I-25 is also US Highway 87, which it replaced. The road follows the valley of the S. Platte River, hence the old name "Valley Highway". There is a pretty steep bank on the west side of the river in north Denver. The road is on the west side of the river at that point. I-25 crosses the river just north of Colfax Ave (15th Ave) and from there south through Denver is less of a divider.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/In...96dd439e2c1afb
Interstate 25 in Colorado - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I will add that it's the river, and the highway that came before I-25, as much as the interstate that is the divider in Denver.
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Old 06-29-2014, 04:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
This singer (who just died) thinks the divide is 110th street.
110th street is the south boundary of Harlem (central Harlem) rather than East Harlem. East of Morningside, west of 5th, mostly coterminous with the northern boundary of the park. West of Morningside is Morningside Heights, which is mostly Columbia.
Harlem & the Heights Historical Society

I doubt Bobby Womack meant "Across 110th street" literally; there's a small area where Harlem borders the UWS at 110th, but more likely it's just metaphor for Harlem as opposed to the wealthier parts of Manhattan. Morningside Park probably held (and still holds) a better claim to an "iron curtain" separating the Columbia area from Harlem.

Nowadays the real estate people like to call the area just north of the park "Central Park North" (also the name for 110th street there), and there's some luxury housing there.
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