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Old 06-29-2014, 04:20 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Originally Posted by nybbler View Post

I doubt Bobby Womack meant "Across 110th street" literally; there's a small area where Harlem borders the UWS at 110th, but more likely it's just metaphor for Harlem as opposed to the wealthier parts of Manhattan. Morningside Park probably held (and still holds) a better claim to an "iron curtain" separating the Columbia area from Harlem.
As for Morningside Park, Columbia proposed building a gym in Morningside Park in 1968 with separate west and east entrances. Student protesters labelled it "Gym Crow". I remember it being a stark change walking across, though at least it's not obviously run down anymore on the east side. Just drastic racial demographic changes.
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Old 06-30-2014, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Great discussion guys, this is fascinating for me. Thanks.
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Old 06-30-2014, 08:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
Closest to the Charles, the east side of that rail/road web is mostly gentrified Charlestown, closer to the docks. To the west is mostly gentrified Somerville/Cambridge. But East Somerville is barely gentrified. I didn't mean that the boundary marked any difference in character, just acted as a barrier between travel and local perception in neighborhood separation. I didn't realize this thread was meant to focus on character. The bolded area all had being near the universities as a gentrification starting point. Even if many there aren't connected to the university, the existing university population created a magnet in having a lot of amnetities focus there which encourage more to move there (Kendall Square has a high tech job center doesn't hurt). The Red Line is an additional boost for those parts near it, I wonder what the new Green Line will do to Somerville.

Maybe you didn't mean to talk about a difference in character or feel on either side of that area, but I think you've hit on something there. If you look past those local spots that stand out as exceptions (un-gentrified neighborhoods in S'ville, gentrified areas of C'town), there is a noticeable difference between the general character of the industrial areas that lie east of that transportation web and close to the harbor and the many areas west of that complex which are home to professors and young professionals.

Your point about Charlestown is another example of something that has been mentioned a couple of times above: the way that gentrification is causing substantial shifts in the longstanding character of some areas, and causing these changes quickly.
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Old 06-30-2014, 09:15 PM
 
Location: New England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre View Post
Maybe you didn't mean to talk about a difference in character or feel on either side of that area, but I think you've hit on something there. If you look past those local spots that stand out as exceptions (un-gentrified neighborhoods in S'ville, gentrified areas of C'town), there is a noticeable difference between the general character of the industrial areas that lie east of that transportation web and close to the harbor and the many areas west of that complex which are home to professors and young professionals.

Your point about Charlestown is another example of something that has been mentioned a couple of times above: the way that gentrification is causing substantial shifts in the longstanding character of some areas, and causing these changes quickly.
When I read the first post discussing it, I was going to say it only applied to south of Ruggles. And as you pointed out, even that has exceptions (The Bromley-Heath projects are west of the Orange Line, and Fort Hill in Roxbury is east).

In regards to north of Boston, it depends if we are looking at a broad divide between areas stretching for a few miles in either direction, or a more focused divide between neighborhoods immediately on either side. As someone else pointed out, Charlestown is more gentrified than East Somerville. And when you get up into Medford/Malden, both sides are generally equal in character.

But I think the way you are looking at it extending to further areas is an interesting take on it. As Somerville and Medford continue to gentrify in their own way this might be even more pronounced. Chelsea and Eastie are gentrifying to some extent too. So it's tough to say. As you said, everything is changing very quickly.
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Old 07-16-2014, 01:22 PM
 
Location: New York City
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The two rivers separating Manhattan.

The numbered avenues as well. 5th Avenue, 3rd Ave, etc. They're boundaries of some neighborhoods.
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I-81 and that is a reason why there are discussions/meetings as to what to do with the highway.
Please clarify, which city do you refer to? (Your profile doesn't show your hometown).

And I-81 is about 850 miles long, stretching all the way from the Canadian border, down to Knoxville, Tennessee.
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
This singer (who just died) thinks the divide is 110th street.
Bobby Womack.


Bobby Womack - Across 110th Street - YouTube
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Old 07-16-2014, 06:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NYRhockeyfan View Post
The two rivers separating Manhattan.

The numbered avenues as well. 5th Avenue, 3rd Ave, etc. They're boundaries of some neighborhoods.
I think you're onto something here.

I wonder whether, within Manhattan, Central Park might be seen as a marker between areas of different character. East Midtown is generally more upscale than West Midtown. South of Central Park you find much of NYC's most significant commercial and business activity. North of the park's northern edge, there's a lot more residential character.

Of course in a place like Manhattan, which is the central part of an old-style densely built, centralized kind of city, even residential neighborhoods have quite a bit of commercial activity, but this is generally more small-scale and local than you find in districts more oriented toward large-scale business. That distinction seems to hold when comparing upper Manhattan to lower and lower-mid Manhattan.
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Old 07-17-2014, 03:09 AM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowlane3 View Post
Please clarify, which city do you refer to? (Your profile doesn't show your hometown).

And I-81 is about 850 miles long, stretching all the way from the Canadian border, down to Knoxville, Tennessee.
See, when you make 29,000 posts, you might well assume everyone knows where you hail from. He's from the 'Cuse

To the OP, I know nothing about the layout of Nashville, as I've never been, but it's interesting to me that you can claim that a city of that size is essentially divided in half. Surely there are other more minor barriers within either of the halves that would act to create further "intra-half" divisions?

As for Buffalo, good old Main Street acts as the barrier between the East Side and the rest of the city, and although a couple key Buffalo institutions are located east of Main (and north of downtown), most residents of the Buffalo area treat the East Side, in attitude if not entirely in practice, as an invisible ghetto. Richmond Avenue used to be another rigid barrier and to some extent remains so, but the gentrification in Buffalo, to the extent that it exists at all, tends to be occurring in areas west of Richmond, thus penetrating what may have been an iron curtain in my childhood. Current fits of gentrification west of Richmond notwithstanding, there'd still be quite a wealth gap if one were to compare the neighborhoods on either side of Richmond (with both sides of the avenue itself counting for the east side of Richmond, as the street is one of the most appealing in the city). So if you were to look at a map of the city of Buffalo, you'd see that what remains between Richmond and Main (a neighborhood referred to as Elmwood Village) is a tiny sliver of consensus, nationally recognized niceness. That's Buffalo (much of it, anyway--part of North, all of East, all of West) for you. (South Buffalo is excluded from the above analysis, which applies to everything north of downtown. South Buffalo's borders with downtown and the East Side aren't as stark as the aforementioned ones. When South Buffalo was seemingly 100% Irish Catholic, as it was until any real integration began to occur in maybe the late nineties, there was a certain bridge on Bailey Avenue that acted as the racial dividing line between South and East)

Last edited by Matt Marcinkiewicz; 07-17-2014 at 03:19 AM..
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Old 07-17-2014, 09:31 AM
 
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I wonder if in moderate to medium big sized cities a beltway has turned into an in-out divide. It certainly seemed that way when I was in Indianapolis but that's only impressions from a while ago.

In Harrisburg area the Susquehanna River is a major perceived divide between a more prosperous/less diverse "West Shore" and the denser less prosperous more inner city "East Shore". Other than some gentrifying neighborhoods immediately north and south of the PA State Capitol building the zone from there out to the I-81/I-83 beltway, including inner ring suburban areas outside the city limits is often looked askance upon by those who do so.

Sometimes it seems that when cities have a broad valley and also hill areas, the hill areas seem more desirable. Harrisburg is a bit of an exception to this in that some closer-in neighborhoods (even Shipoke which seems to be in about a 2-year floodplain) are considered more desirable than the closest clearly non-flood zone (Allison Hill) which with similar aged housing stock is considered the core of the bad area.

In Syracuse I-81 follows the rim of the hill areas until it becomes an aging elevated highway so it functions as a double divide. In many locations including Syracuse though, the college/university seems to be on a hillside overlooking town ("higher education" I guess) so that's the point of beginning for an eds-and-meds complex that forms more stable or prosperous employment. That could be a driver for a hill/valley socioeconomic divide, or maybe a consequence.
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