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Old 07-20-2014, 12:38 PM
 
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The government does not subside off the street parking. It subsidizes on the street parking by providing towing services and regulates it by ticketing. The city of Chicago does not care if I park in my Garage or not, but if I park in front of my house and don't move my car for seven days it will be towed.

The fewer cars Chicago has to tow the lower the cost to the city therefore it is in the interest of the City to force developers to have off the street parking. It also is an good idea because some things need more parking than others like schools. One College could take up blocks and blocks of on the street parking denying it to residents who live in the area as well as people who may be visiting the area to shop. If the city stopped towing parking on the street would get filled with inoperable motor vehicles. On the street parking isn't sufficient in an world were almost every adult owns an car if not two nor will people ever go back to not owning cars. There are a few situations where people don't own cars, but not most.[/quote]

Of course requiring a certain amount of off-street parking is a subsidy. Yes you are right that towing and ticketing is a subsidy for street parking, but I never said I supported towing and ticketing. I want the situation to be as close to a free market as possible.

It is not true that almost every adult owns a car. There are many cities, such as Chicago, where large percentages of households have no car. List of U.S. cities with most households without a car - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As for the cities where 90% plus of households have a car, more people would be able to go without a car if the cities were allowed to be built in more dense and walkable patterns. Minimum parking rules prevent that from happening.

"Reduce the cost of towing" is a very weak argument for minimum parking regulations. Where is the evidence that the money savings from less towing outweighs the costs of less walkable neighborhoods and more space wasted by unused parking?

 
Old 07-20-2014, 12:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
My o My! Such fightin' words, and on a Sunday no less!

There are no off-street parking spaces to rent in my daughter's 'hood.

The traffic has to flow for reasons of public safety. It has nothing to do with me wanting to shove something down anyone's throat. chirack expressed it well with these words: Old neighborhoods are not compact to be hip. I haven't whined about subsidies for transit. Every time I buy something within the RTD, I subsidize it.
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There is no evidence that street parking causes a threat to public safety. If anything, it enhances public safety by slowing down traffic, making car accidents not as damaging, and by making a neighborhood more walkable, giving people alternatives to driving, which is statistically the most dangerous form of transportation.
 
Old 07-20-2014, 12:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
And how exactly is the traffic flow restricted by the on street parking? I drove through a neighborhood full of parked cars yesterday, flow was fine.
I have lived in areas where some of the off the street parking behind the buildings was removed for reasons of crime. The on the street parking gets taken up, people double park(which slows/stops traffic) to run into an store or to drop someone off or pick them up. It isn't an good thing. People also will park illegally in front of fire hydrants for an second if there isn't enough parking(which is an public safety issue). The short is that if you want people to park legally then some amount of parking must be provided.

One block I lived on had enough parking that I could possibly park on the block most of the time but holidays or if someone was throwing an party then perhaps not. We had lots of apartment buildings and two flats with no parking. Rebuilding the garage was the best thing we ever did. In addition not every house just has one car. Our next door neighbors didn't hardly get rid of their cars they passed them down and so that household generated five cars of which only two of which were in the garage. I could not guarantee that I could parking in front of my house most of the time which becomes an issue when transporting stuff in like groceries. The church down the street likewise took an fair amount of parking before they built an parking lot. Lack of parking just imposes impracticality on people.
 
Old 07-20-2014, 12:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by stateofnature View Post
There is no evidence that street parking causes a threat to public safety. If anything, it enhances public safety by slowing down traffic, making car accidents not as damaging, and by making a neighborhood more walkable, giving people alternatives to driving, which is statistically the most dangerous form of transportation.
Tell that to the police car, fire truck or ambulance that has to dodge that illegally parked car.
 
Old 07-20-2014, 12:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chirack View Post
Tell that to the police car, fire truck or ambulance that has to dodge that illegally parked car.
Again, show me the evidence that this supposed harm to safety is real and that it outweighs the safety benefits of slower traffic and walkability.

"Low-speed streets with on-street parking also had the lowest fatal and severe crash rates of any road category in the study of 250 Connecticut roadway segments." Reassessing On-Street Parking - Transportation Research Record: Journal of the Transportation Research Board - Volume 2046, Volume 2046 / 2008 Performance Measurement, Demand Management, and Issues of Major U.S. Cities - Transportation Research Board

That one study doesn't definitively prove that street parking enhances safety. It's just one study. But that's at least some evidence.
 
Old 07-20-2014, 12:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stateofnature View Post
Again, show me the evidence that this supposed harm to safety is real and that it outweighs the safety benefits of slower traffic and walkability.

"Low-speed streets with on-street parking also had the lowest fatal and severe crash rates of any road category in the study of 250 Connecticut roadway segments." Reassessing On-Street Parking - Transportation Research Record: Journal of the Transportation Research Board - Volume 2046, Volume 2046 / 2008 Performance Measurement, Demand Management, and Issues of Major U.S. Cities - Transportation Research Board

That one study doesn't definitively prove that street parking enhances safety. It's just one study. But that's at least some evidence.
You must not have an lot of experience with city living. I grew up in one and live in one and saw the good, the bad and the ugly of it. Streets that are low speed and have on the street parking tend to be residential streets they don't have an huge volume of traffic going down them but not every street in an city is going to be residential. As for buffering pedestrians from moving traffic that is what sidewalks do.
 
Old 07-20-2014, 01:01 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,991 posts, read 42,018,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
You must not have an lot of experience with city living. I grew up in one and live in one and saw the good, the bad and the ugly of it. Streets that are low speed and have on the street parking tend to be residential streets they don't have an huge volume of traffic going down them but not every street in an city is going to be residential.
I thought we were discussing residential streets
 
Old 07-20-2014, 01:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
You must not have an lot of experience with city living. I grew up in one and live in one and saw the good, the bad and the ugly of it. Streets that are low speed and have on the street parking tend to be residential streets they don't have an huge volume of traffic going down them but not every street in an city is going to be residential.
How does experience living in a city amount to statistical evidence? That's just your anecdotal guesswork. Did you sit down and record every time someone died from a delayed ambulance? Did you record everytime someone didn't get into a car accident because he or she walked instead of drove? Of course you didn't, because it's impossible for just one person living in one neighborhood to do that.
To prove that street parking makes an area less safe you would require a major statistical study comparing injury and fatality rates in a variety of neighborhoods.

I have lived in a very urban neighborhood with almost nothing but street parking for years and I feel more safe here than in a suburb because I don't need to drive as much and driving is statistically the most dangerous form of transportation. But that's just my own anecdotal experience. Why is your anecdotal experience more valuable than mine?

You have no evidence to support what you are saying. I at least have one study.
 
Old 07-20-2014, 01:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I thought we were discussing residential streets
Where I live there are residential streets as well as commercial streets with on the street parking. However how much parking an area needs is dependent on many factors and rarely will people choose public transit just because of lack of parking(takes a little more than that...more like lack of parking and I need to work there or I really really want to go there like an stadium). Otherwise they just double park and create an mess or decide nope not going to go there(reducing the potential viability).
 
Old 07-20-2014, 01:12 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,663,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
And how exactly is the traffic flow restricted by the on street parking? I drove through a neighborhood full of parked cars yesterday, flow was fine.




The OP is a regular, he's posted here for years.



Did I claim Manhattan is the rest of the US, or has anything to do with the rest of the country? That's an odd jump. My point was that car ownership is partly lowered due to the difficulty of parking.



I never mentioned loss of developer's rights as a negative.
Not so much traffic flow but people double parking, slowing down traffic trying to squeeze into spaces too small to actually park in, people circling around blocks looking for parking, etc.

The OP had not posted here since Jan. 2013, according to my search.

You frequently use Manhattan as an example. You did in the post I responded to by saying the whole country doesn't operate like Manhattan.

I just added that piece about developers.
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