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No suburbs are not part of a city by their very nature, because the thing that makes it a 'suburb' and not 'part of the city' is that they have separate municipal boundaries, which is why they are named something different. Effing' DUH.
And if you think that suburbs are 'cities' and there is no distinction, then why are you participating in this discussion? Can you not read the title, which is 'can suburbs be cities', which necessitates you believe in the concept of suburbs to begin with?
Is there any other sub-section so filled with trolls? Is there some guy in the TV section going on about how Star Wars is the best TV show ever? Or in the sports section about how the New England Patriots are the best basketball team?
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I doubt residents of Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico, would accept being characterized as "sub-states" of Texas or Nevada and Oregon to be "substates" of California.
Well, you see our founding fathers thought of that, so they made up this thing called the Senate which has equal representation for all states, so that the populous states (in theory) don't get special representation above the lesser populated states. Is there are a similar concept for cities within states? That's homework for you.
So now you've admitted you know nothing about this topic or about how the US government operates. Way to go.
No suburbs are not part of a city by their very nature, because the thing that makes it a 'suburb' and not 'part of the city' is that they have separate municipal boundaries, which is why they are named something different. Effing' DUH.
And if you think that suburbs are 'cities' and there is no distinction, then why are you participating in this discussion? Can you not read the title, which is 'can suburbs be cities', which necessitates you believe in the concept of suburbs to begin with?
Is there any other sub-section so filled with trolls? Is there some guy in the TV section going on about how Star Wars is the best TV show ever? Or in the sports section about how the New England Patriots are the best basketball team?
Well, you see our founding fathers thought of that, so they made up this thing called the Senate which has equal representation for all states, so that the populous states (in theory) don't get special representation above the lesser populated states. Is there are a similar concept for cities within states? That's homework for you.
So now you've admitted you know nothing about this topic or about how the US government operates. Way to go.
Suburbs are part of the urban area though. They're included in MSA/CSA populations.
Many suburban municipalities are configured as cities. Because Denver is in a separate county of its own, all the burbs are in different counties, and all have their own county seats, e.g. (clockwise, not alphabetically) Brighton, Littleton, Golden, Boulder and Broomfield. Some of these cities were stand-alone in years past, e.g. not part of the metro area; e.g. all of the above except for Broomfield.
Is there any other sub-section so filled with trolls? Is there some guy in the TV section going on about how Star Wars is the best TV show ever? Or in the sports section about how the New England Patriots are the best basketball team?
Well, aren't the Patriots the best basketball team? After all, they recently won the World Stanley Series, didn't they?
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Originally Posted by TheOverdog
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Originally Posted by bigpaul
Suburbs ARE part of a city by their very nature.
No suburbs are not part of a city by their very nature, because the thing that makes it a 'suburb' and not 'part of the city' is that they have separate municipal boundaries, which is why they are named something different. Effing' DUH.
And if you think that suburbs are 'cities' and there is no distinction, then why are you participating in this discussion? Can you not read the title, which is 'can suburbs be cities', which necessitates you believe in the concept of suburbs to begin with?
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Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
Suburbs are part of the urban area though. They're included in MSA/CSA populations.
Many suburban municipalities are configured as cities. Because Denver is in a separate county of its own, all the burbs are in different counties, and all have their own county seats, e.g. (clockwise, not alphabetically) Brighton, Littleton, Golden, Boulder and Broomfield. Some of these cities were stand-alone in years past, e.g. not part of the metro area; e.g. all of the above except for Broomfield.
Okay, now to get serious. This being the Urban Planning forum, it's reasonable to think that some participants may have a deeper interest in settlement patterns than simple labels can cover.
Regardless of political boundaries, might metropolitan areas be regarded functionally as single cohesive giant cities? What about significant economic centers for whole suburban sections in large metro areas? Even though they are subordinate to the larger anchor city, might these be regarded as small cities in their own right, within the complex economic, commuting, and settlement patterns in present-day metros?
The Skater raises a good question with the example of Denver and vicinity. What happens to independent towns and small cities when a larger city's suburbs grow out to them? Do they suddenly stop being small cities in their own right?
These are the kinds of questions that can be of interest to people who seek a deeper understanding, about the actual functioning of population centers, than you find if you fail to look beyond simple generic labels.
Regardless of political boundaries, might metropolitan areas be regarded functionally as single cohesive giant cities?
They're often not cohesive. Someone in the Montgomery County suburbs of D.C. probably rarely goes to the Virginia suburbs of D.C. (and vice-versa). Same in NYC; if you live in Long Island you don't go to New Jersey often, and vice-versa.
They're often not cohesive. Someone in the Montgomery County suburbs of D.C. probably rarely goes to the Virginia suburbs of D.C. (and vice-versa). Same in NYC; if you live in Long Island you don't go to New Jersey often, and vice-versa.
But you could say the same within cities, at least large ones. A Brooklyn resident would rarely visit the Bronx and vice-versa. They're still economically tied and with the same governance, but not much direct connection.
They're often not cohesive. Someone in the Montgomery County suburbs of D.C. probably rarely goes to the Virginia suburbs of D.C. (and vice-versa). Same in NYC; if you live in Long Island you don't go to New Jersey often, and vice-versa.
And if you live in Louisville, CO you don't often go to Highlands Ranch and vice versa. People from Aurora don't often go to Golden and VV. However, to toot my area's horn, we have a lot of intergovernmental cooperation here with teeth, e.g. shared taxes. We have the transportation district, RTD, all or part of 8 counties. We have the Scientific and Cultural Facilities District that supports these facilities throughout. This is a very thumbnail, maybe even pinky-nail sketch, but it gives you an idea: Scientific and Cultural Facilities District - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Denver Water also serves a lot of the suburbs. The major league football and baseball stadiums were built with taxes from the whole metro.
But you could say the same within cities, at least large ones. A Brooklyn resident would rarely visit the Bronx and vice-versa. They're still economically tied and with the same governance, but not much direct connection.
Sure, a lot of large cities aren't very cohesive either; the only thing making them a unit is the shared government. NYC also has a strong Manhattan-centric commuter pattern (which extends to the metro), but some cities do not. Metro areas lack the shared government and many lack or have a much weaker commuting pattern.
Metro-wide governance is clumsier when the metro goes across state lines.
That doesn't affect every city, and even in cities where it does, there is plenty of intra-state suburbanization as well, e.g. New York, Philadelphia, Portland, OR, Chicago, probably others. I'm just going off the top of my head. Yeah, Cincinnati, too.
Well, you see our founding fathers thought of that, so they made up this thing called the Senate which has equal representation for all states, so that the populous states (in theory) don't get special representation above the lesser populated states. Is there are a similar concept for cities within states? That's homework for you.
You were referring to two different posters... and you obviously did not understand the point being made with the second post you quoted.
In this forum the urbanistas can't have a consistent definition of "suburb" - only that it is something they usually deride. For some the term appears to refer to a "form" of development. For some it appears to mean "not downtown". For some it means areas outside of an incorporated area or outside of a more populous incorporated area. The term is pejorative and generally useless.
The point about the states (which you apparently did not comprehend) was that other states are not "sub-states" simply because they are adjacent more populous states - just as areas (including other cities) outside cities are not "sub-" anything to cities that may be more populous. Voting has nothing to do with the point.
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