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Old 07-29-2014, 02:15 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,010 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
Let's accept that there are going to be no certainties here. So no, I don't know anything for a "fact". I just know that eventually it will be too much house for them. And I believe (note the difference) that the longer they wait, the more they risk getting hosed on the sale price.

Since my parents are far from senile, we are blessed with a fairly even-handed relationship. I hope they do care about where I live, and I hope they want me to care about where they live too. If they have reason to believe that I should re-consider my choice of housing, I hope they tell me. And I hope they listen if I tell them.

The reason I believe they should listen to me on this subject is that I'm talking to them about my generation (as well as the one that's just a couple years behind me. I'm at the tail end of Gen X.) My parents, as well as many baby boomers, seem to be a little under-informed about the value differences between their generation and ours, or else they assume that, if there's something we do that doesn't make sense to them, we'll just "grow out of it."

My relationship with my parents is one marked by respect. This is a fact that I would not expect strangers on a forum to be aware of, which is why I'm telling you now. This means that I will share with them what I know, and what I believe, and then respect them enough to make that decision without any further pestering from me.
Well. . . .

What makes you think us Boomers are "a little under-informed about the value differences between their generation and ours"? If any generation has a clue about that, it's us! We used to say the same thing about our parents! Our parents, AKA The Greatest Generation, AKA The World War II Vets (both my parents were vets), were considered by us to have a "depression mentality". Now mind you, many of our parents, including my mom, were really just kids during the depression, but anyway. My dad was a teen when the depression started; was a young man when WW II kicked us out of the depression and into a war economy. Our parents were appalled at the idea of paying for a home for 30 years. My dad once said he guessed people my age didn't expect to ever pay off a house. HIS generation tried to do that, fairly early on into the mortgage, which used to be a standard 20 years, not 30. We though they were nuts. They didn't like to use credit cards. Honestly, my parents would roll over in their graves if they saw how we pay bills and such 'these days'. Yes, I do that just like my kids do. And pay bills by phone? They wouldn't get it! Our parents saved string, aluminum foil, took back soda bottles, etc, etc, etc. Our parents were of course appalled at our anti-war attitudes, though as time went on, most of them got fed up with Viet Nam too, and most didn't want their own kids to have to go over there. Then there's the whole social stuff. Our parents believed in getting married before living together (though many had sex before marriage), getting married before having kids, letting the man be in charge of the household, etc. They didn't quite understand "equality". Now some of this is stereotypical and not all of our parents were exactly like that, but enough were that they were shocked when we didn't folllow exactly in their footsteps.

Your parents should listen to you and then do what they want. They probably have some competent financial advisors. All you need to know is who is their POA, do they have a living will, and where they keep their financial documents and their will.

From 1967: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-geX7D4hgM

1961 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPXUP8xr5nA

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 07-29-2014 at 02:29 PM..

 
Old 07-29-2014, 02:26 PM
 
1,319 posts, read 1,070,679 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Well. . . .

What makes you think us Boomers are "a little under-informed about the value differences between their generation and ours"? If any generation has a clue about that, it's us! We used to say the same thing about our parents! Our parents, AKA The Greatest Generation, AKA The World War II Vets (both my parents were vets), were considered by us to have a "depression mentality". Now mind you, many of our parents, including my mom, were really just kids during the depression, but anyway. My dad was a teen when the depression started; was a young man when WW II kicked us out of the depression and into a war economy. Our parents were appalled at the idea of paying for a home for 30 years. My dad once said he guessed people my age didn't expect to ever pay off a house. HIS generation tried to do that, fairly early on into the mortgage, which used to be a standard 20 years, not 30. We though they were nuts. They didn't like to use credit cards. Honestly, my parents would roll over in their graves if they saw how we pay bills and such 'these days'. Yes, I do that just like my kids do. And pay bills by phone? They wouldn't get it! Our parents saved string, aluminum foil, took back soda bottles, etc, etc, etc. Our parents were of course appalled at our anti-war attitudes, though as time went on, most of them got fed up with Viet Nam too, and most didn't want their own kids to have to go over there. Then there's the whole social stuff. Our parents believed in getting married before living together (though many had sex before marriage), getting married before having kids, letting the man be in charge of the household, etc. They didn't quite understand "equality". Now some of this is stereotypical and not all of our parents were exactly like that, but enough were that they were shocked when we didn't folllow exactly in their footsteps.

Your parents should listen to you and then do what they want. They probably have some competent financial advisors. All you need to know is who is their POA, do they have a living will, and where they keep their financial documents and their will.
Thank you for this; I think it illustrates my point quite well. Your parents didn't understand your generation, nor should you expect to understand that of your children (although you should certainly try.) I'm sure the homeowners of the Greatest Generation expected Baby Boomers to buy their houses in the urban and inner-ring areas after they moved out. But they largely didn't buy them, because their values had changed and so had the economy.

Although many of those houses ended up abandoned, fortunately there are also many that weren't, because there was another socioeconomic group moving up to fill in the gap. The difference today, is that if prosperous Gen Xers and Millenials aren't numerous enough or willing enough to buy these houses when they come on the market, that's it. There is no one else. Unless of course the prices drop precipitously, which is exactly the problem that concerns me, and many others like me.
 
Old 07-29-2014, 02:31 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,010 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
Thank you for this; I think it illustrates my point quite well. Your parents didn't understand your generation, nor should you expect to understand that of your children (although you should certainly try.) I'm sure the homeowners of the Greatest Generation expected Baby Boomers to buy their houses in the urban and inner-ring areas after they moved out. But they largely didn't buy them, because their values had changed and so had the economy.

Although many of those houses ended up abandoned, fortunately there are also many that weren't, because there was another socioeconomic group moving up to fill in the gap. The difference today, is that if prosperous Gen Xers and Millenials aren't numerous enough or willing enough to buy these houses when they come on the market, that's it. There is no one else. Unless of course the prices drop precipitously, which is exactly the problem that concerns me, and many others like me.
What houses ended up being abandoned, as in, people just totally walking away from them? Care to fill that out with a little documentation?

Your parents are young. Spare them this "downsizing" talk. Why on earth would they want to move away from everything they know?
 
Old 07-29-2014, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
4,896 posts, read 7,659,080 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
What houses ended up being abandoned, as in, people just totally walking away from them? Care to fill that out with a little documentation?

Your parents are young. Spare them this "downsizing" talk. Why on earth would they want to move away from everything they know?
Look at rust belt cities.
 
Old 07-29-2014, 02:39 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,010 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
Look at rust belt cities.
The situation in the Rust Belt cities resulted from the economic collapse of the steel industry, an external source. It did not result from the housing choices of the Greatest Generation. There is no analogous situation here in Denver, or even in Chicago, which did have a lot of people working in the steel industry. It had a more diversified economy.
 
Old 07-29-2014, 02:45 PM
 
1,319 posts, read 1,070,679 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
What houses ended up being abandoned, as in, people just totally walking away from them? Care to fill that out with a little documentation?
I was just referencing someone else's mention of the abandonment issue, and after looking for a moment I can't find that comment again. It wasn't that the owners just walked away from them; it's that they willed the houses to their kids, who didn't want to live there. So they put them on the market, but their value was greatly diminished by white flight and the general degradation of the urban core. So perhaps they weren't abandoned, but they were often sold cheaply to slumlords who wouldn't take care of them, and rented to people who couldn't take care of them.

No, I don't have any studies on hand to back up this perspective. But since it's not that important to my argument, I'll just leave it alone. The point is the expectation of the Greatest Generation that their children would want their houses, and how differently things actually turned out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
What houses ended up being abandoned, as in, people just totally walking away from them? Care to fill that out with a little documentation?

Your parents are young. Spare them this "downsizing" talk. Why on earth would they want to move away from everything they know?
I think we're past the point where I can have a productive conversation with anyone on this forum about my parents. Why on earth would you know whether their current house represents "everything they know". Let's move on.
 
Old 07-29-2014, 03:12 PM
 
13,044 posts, read 15,397,378 times
Reputation: 15299
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
Thank you for this; I think it illustrates my point quite well. Your parents didn't understand your generation, nor should you expect to understand that of your children (although you should certainly try.) I'm sure the homeowners of the Greatest Generation expected Baby Boomers to buy their houses in the urban and inner-ring areas after they moved out. But they largely didn't buy them, because their values had changed and so had the economy.

Although many of those houses ended up abandoned, fortunately there are also many that weren't, because there was another socioeconomic group moving up to fill in the gap. The difference today, is that if prosperous Gen Xers and Millenials aren't numerous enough or willing enough to buy these houses when they come on the market, that's it. There is no one else. Unless of course the prices drop precipitously, which is exactly the problem that concerns me, and many others like me.

This shows how much insight you lack. My parents would have rather died than lived in urban or inner ring housing. They lived in the country. They didn't expect ME to live in the country or move into their country home when they died. In fact, they said in their will that they wanted it sold and the proceeds divided among the kids. I found suburbia as the best fit for me and they stayed rural because that's what they preferred. If you prefer urban, fine - live there. But why are you trying to convince everyone that it's the "right" choice? It may be the right choice for you. It's not the right choice for everyone else.

And I think it's good to note that it's a cycle. People who previously HAD to live in urban/densely populated areas decided that they wanted more room to spread out, more property of their own. That was the dream. Now people are idealizing urban living, which is why I said FOR A TIME it may become popular. But in 20-50 years? People are going to be heading out to the suburban/country areas again, tired of living like sardines in an urban area. If I wanted to live like a sardine in a rat-infested urban area, I could move to New York.
 
Old 07-29-2014, 03:31 PM
 
1,319 posts, read 1,070,679 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
This shows how much insight you lack. My parents would have rather died than lived in urban or inner ring housing. They lived in the country. They didn't expect ME to live in the country or move into their country home when they died. In fact, they said in their will that they wanted it sold and the proceeds divided among the kids. I found suburbia as the best fit for me and they stayed rural because that's what they preferred. If you prefer urban, fine - live there. But why are you trying to convince everyone that it's the "right" choice? It may be the right choice for you. It's not the right choice for everyone else.
Although we're not really on the same page here, I'll grant there's a possibility that you may be right. As a society, we certainly have banked a lot on the gamble that you're right on this point. Because if a large enough proportion of the younger generations do prefer to live in the city, or the inner-ring, or even out in the country, then the U.S. economy is screwed. This is not really up for debate. We can debate whether or not they will make this choice, but I think we can agree that the health of our future economy depends on it.

Despite my own preference for urban or semi-urban living, and my belief in the social responsibility and sustainability represented by that choice, I hope that you're at least partially right if it means that we can avoid a real estate catastrophe.
 
Old 07-29-2014, 03:35 PM
 
13,044 posts, read 15,397,378 times
Reputation: 15299
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
The point is the expectation of the Greatest Generation that their children would want their houses, and how differently things actually turned out.
I don't know where you got that idea. I don't know anyone my age (Baby Boomer) whose parents expected them to want their house. I know a lot who DO/DID want their parents' houses, but I don't know any parents who EXPECTED their kids to move into their houses. Not one.

You have a serious lack of insight regarding all of this so I'm not sure why you are even trying to debate it. You are in over your head and you really have no response to Katiana's questions, so you decide it's time to end the conversation.
 
Old 07-29-2014, 03:47 PM
 
1,319 posts, read 1,070,679 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
I don't know where you got that idea. I don't know anyone my age (Baby Boomer) whose parents expected them to want their house. I know a lot who DO/DID want their parents' houses, but I don't know any parents who EXPECTED their kids to move into their houses. Not one.

You have a serious lack of insight regarding all of this so I'm not sure why you are even trying to debate it. You are in over your head and you really have no response to Katiana's questions, so you decide it's time to end the conversation.
I wasn't saying that the Greatest Generation necessarily expected their own kids to want their houses. I apologize if I mis-communicated that. I was saying that they expected their houses to be valued by someone in the younger generation. I seriously doubt they expected their old houses to sell at a loss, and convert to majority renter-occupancy.

I specifically requested an end to the portion of the conversation that was about my parents, because this thread is not about my relationship with my parents, and I got tired of everyone thinking they knew more about them than I did.

I'd like to think we can all manage to discuss this topic in an objective manner, without trying to second-guess others' personal relationships, or persistently accuse others of lacking insight.
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