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Old 08-04-2014, 09:48 AM
 
13,044 posts, read 15,397,378 times
Reputation: 15299

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stateofnature View Post
Why is it ok for you to tell people why the suburbs are better than the city ("living like sardines") but it is not ok for other people to say why they think cities are better than suburbs?
I'm not pushing people to move to the suburbs. I am stating my personal preference and stating the reasons that people do move from the core to the suburbs. But there IS a campaign/movement trying to convince people to move to the core and stating it is better - not from a personal perspective, but from a perspective of trying to get people to move back to the core and saying the suburbs are somehow doing something wrong for being there.

Thank God for the suburbs when a lot of downtowns were empty, scary, vacant, dangerous places to be, places where no one wanted to be after dark.
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Old 08-04-2014, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,427 posts, read 11,929,235 times
Reputation: 10539
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
I'm not pushing people to move to the suburbs. I am stating my personal preference and stating the reasons that people do move from the core to the suburbs. But there IS a campaign/movement trying to convince people to move to the core and stating it is better - not from a personal perspective, but from a perspective of trying to get people to move back to the core and saying the suburbs are somehow doing something wrong for being there.
Again, a campaign by who?

Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
Thank God for the suburbs when a lot of downtowns were empty, scary, vacant, dangerous places to be, places where no one wanted to be after dark.
Cities became that in large part because people moved to the suburbs though. Any neighborhood, urban or suburban, get most of its social issues from the local population mix, not the built structure.
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:17 AM
 
2,824 posts, read 3,351,264 times
Reputation: 3030
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
I'm not pushing people to move to the suburbs. I am stating my personal preference and stating the reasons that people do move from the core to the suburbs. But there IS a campaign/movement trying to convince people to move to the core and stating it is better - not from a personal perspective, but from a perspective of trying to get people to move back to the core and saying the suburbs are somehow doing something wrong for being there.

Thank God for the suburbs when a lot of downtowns were empty, scary, vacant, dangerous places to be, places where no one wanted to be after dark.
There are plenty of folks who don't want to be there during the day either. There are also many commute in and would prefer the option of avoiding heading into the city for a job. Many folks do not like the congestion, noise, taxes, agendas, control, etc. inevitable with cities.
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:33 AM
 
1,998 posts, read 2,933,575 times
Reputation: 2150
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
I'm not pushing people to move to the suburbs. I am stating my personal preference and stating the reasons that people do move from the core to the suburbs. But there IS a campaign/movement trying to convince people to move to the core and stating it is better - not from a personal perspective, but from a perspective of trying to get people to move back to the core and saying the suburbs are somehow doing something wrong for being there.

Thank God for the suburbs when a lot of downtowns were empty, scary, vacant, dangerous places to be, places where no one wanted to be after dark.
You're creating a false dichotomy here where when you say negative things about cities it is just you stating a "personal preference" but when others say why they think cities are better than suburbs they are now waging a "campaign" and trying to "force" things on others.
Nope, that's a personal preference too. Just like you are free to express your opinion that you like the suburbs others are free to express their opinion that more people should move to the city.
I actually don't hold the opinion that more people should move to the city. I prefer cities to suburbs but I don't care what others do. But if I DID hold the opinion that more people should move to the city, it would still just be a personal preference.
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Old 08-04-2014, 12:08 PM
 
1,211 posts, read 887,150 times
Reputation: 1107
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
Thank God for the suburbs when a lot of downtowns were empty, scary, vacant, dangerous places to be, places where no one wanted to be after dark.
You mean as a result of "white flight", when people felt forced out of cities for safety reasons and moved to the suburbs? Ok, I suppose if it was really so unsafe then its great that they had somewhere to go. But if the influx into suburbia in the 1950s was because cities were unsafe, what did you think would happen as cities became safe again? Let me guess - people might move back into them? Seems so!

Anyways, you seem to be begging for the urbanists to tell you why they prefer the city. Personally, I would feel like I was shortchanging my kids and underestimating their needs by raising them in a homogeneous cul-de-sac in suburbia, but that's just me.
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Old 08-04-2014, 12:17 PM
 
1,024 posts, read 859,158 times
Reputation: 1728
I was an urban renewal/gentrification/whatever booster at first, but I've come to agree with the notion that it's a relatively short term trend. Self driving vehicles will take a great degree of the sting out of commuting, including the risk of DUIs, (which is really half the reason young professionals prefer "walkability"). At present, the money saved in gas is lost in rent. And because the state is largely unwilling to take necessary measures to impose law and order (highly 'elite' enclaves notwithstanding), people are going to remain very hesitant to remain in urban areas when they are in their family formation phase.

I think the pendulum will swing back towards the suburbs within 20 years, and I think it will stick there for quite a long time. Only a peak oil type event, or some unforeseeable social upheaval, could arrest this.
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Old 08-04-2014, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
4,896 posts, read 7,659,080 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by tairos View Post
I was an urban renewal/gentrification/whatever booster at first, but I've come to agree with the notion that it's a relatively short term trend. Self driving vehicles will take a great degree of the sting out of commuting, including the risk of DUIs, (which is really half the reason young professionals prefer "walkability"). At present, the money saved in gas is lost in rent. And because the state is largely unwilling to take necessary measures to impose law and order (highly 'elite' enclaves notwithstanding), people are going to remain very hesitant to remain in urban areas when they are in their family formation phase.

I think the pendulum will swing back towards the suburbs within 20 years, and I think it will stick there for quite a long time. Only a peak oil type event, or some unforeseeable social upheaval, could arrest this.
Maybe you're right, that the majority of people moving back to the city are only doing so to have a shorter commute, or to avoid DUis. But, speaking for myself, I prefer the aesthetics of an older urban environment, I enjoy walking in what I consider to be attractive places, and I like not being a slave to a car. (in my case, trying to find a ride everywhere) Living in the rust belt, I consider it an added bonus that it's cheaper to live in the city, too.

If self-driving cars become common-place, I might get one. But the first two factors I listed above will still keep me in the city.
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Old 08-04-2014, 12:45 PM
 
Location: State of Denial
111 posts, read 114,017 times
Reputation: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
I seriously doubt that. I have more life experience. I have seen trends come and go. This is a trend. But even if a whole lot of people decide to move to urban areas, there are still going to be more people NOT in urban areas. Then 20 or 30 years from now, those people living like sardines in urban areas will want more space, a yard, some land, and they will move out from the core again.
Decaf, luzianne. Switch to decaf. I was being facetious & sarcastic.
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Old 08-04-2014, 03:13 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,008 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064
Quote:
Originally Posted by semiurbanite View Post
You mean as a result of "white flight", when people felt forced out of cities for safety reasons and moved to the suburbs? Ok, I suppose if it was really so unsafe then its great that they had somewhere to go. But if the influx into suburbia in the 1950s was because cities were unsafe, what did you think would happen as cities became safe again? Let me guess - people might move back into them? Seems so!

Anyways, you seem to be begging for the urbanists to tell you why they prefer the city. Personally, I would feel like I was shortchanging my kids and underestimating their needs by raising them in a homogeneous cul-de-sac in suburbia, but that's just me.
Yeah, it IS just you. How do you think I shortchanged my kids?
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Old 08-04-2014, 04:28 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
33,896 posts, read 42,133,814 times
Reputation: 43304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Yeah, it IS just you. How do you think I shortchanged my kids?
I must have shortchanged mine, too (after all they only live by the Chesapeake Bay and have been in or on the water and marshes their entire lives not to mention involved in Town activities since they could walk. Even now, when volunteers are needed for things like crewing a Dragon Boat in an End Hunger In Calvert event they're the first to sign up, not to mention all the other free hours they put in at other events or helping people get out when they have to evacuate during a hurricane.).
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