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Old 08-04-2014, 05:46 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,634,943 times
Reputation: 33082

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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
I must have shortchanged mine, too (after all they only live by the Chesapeake Bay and have been in or on the water and marshes their entire lives not to mention involved in Town activities since they could walk. Even now, when volunteers are needed for things like crewing a Dragon Boat in an End Hunger In Calvert event they're the first to sign up, not to mention all the other free hours they put in at other events or helping people get out when they have to evacuate during a hurricane.).
Well, I think they were short-changed, considering that! As for mine, they had to put up with ice skating on this little outdoor rink in winter. I mean, Good Lord, we even did those preposterous horse-drawn carriage rides a few times. How pedestrian! Then in the spring, community egg hunts, summers in the local pool, a 4th of July celebration in City Park with the city staff including those good-for-nothing council members grilling hot dogs and brats; hauling their cats down Main Street in a wagon for the Labor Day pet parade, with an announcer giving their name and the cats'. I mean, that's just low-class. Granted, in Denver, the cattle parade through downtown to start the National Western Stock Show, but they don't call out the cows' and their owners' names! Halloween, nasty Christian/pagan holiday was huge for my kids. Again, a parade in December, the Parade of Lights with all the Scout troops in town parading down Main St. in light-up costumes. Tacky, tacky! And it was bad enough that they went to a school with a 98% graduation rate, and where 92% of the graduates go on to higher ed. The best rate in Denver was at South High, with 78%. Maybe they should go to North High, with a graduation rate of 56%. So much better for their futures.

And we never went down to Denver for museum trips, the ballet, theater, or sporting events, I mean it's 25 freaking miles away! Not to mention, there were/are plenty of such cultural events in and near our little town itself.

WinterSkate: Old Fashioned Outdoor Ice Skating in Downtown Louisville, Colorado, https://foursquare.com/v/winterskate...a88cfacd8d4ed7
https://www.google.com/search?q=loui...w=1744&bih=860
https://www.google.com/search?client...ark%20pictures
(Some of these are from Denver; please note farmer's market-that is in Louisville, tacky, tacky, selling farm products!)
2013 Fall Festival - Labor Day Weekend
https://www.google.com/search?q=loui...w=1744&bih=860

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi3UGsG8BJg
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_24...by-1-5-percent
http://www.nationalwestern.com/speci...ss-parade.aspx

It was just short of child abuse, I tell ya!

Last edited by nei; 08-04-2014 at 08:24 PM.. Reason: shouldn't give the moderators ideas
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Old 08-04-2014, 05:55 PM
 
2,493 posts, read 2,195,701 times
Reputation: 3351
Quote:
Originally Posted by semiurbanite View Post
Anyways, you seem to be begging for the urbanists to tell you why they prefer the city. Personally, I would feel like I was shortchanging my kids and underestimating their needs by raising them in a homogeneous cul-de-sac in suburbia, but that's just me.

Seems like some posters have trouble with reading comprehension.
Semiurbanite made it VERY clear he/or she was discussing a personal decision.

Kinda like the OP that thinks that if someone expresses their favorable opinion about cities,
that means they are "forcing an urban lifestyle".

Some posters take every pro urban or anti-suburban idea as a personal attack on their decisions. LOL
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Old 08-04-2014, 05:59 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,634,943 times
Reputation: 33082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddyline View Post
Seems like some posters have trouble with reading comprehension.
Semiurbanite made it VERY clear he/or she was discussing a personal decision.

Kinda like the OP that thinks that if someone expresses their favorable opinion about cities,
that means they are "forcing an urban lifestyle".

Some posters take every pro urban or anti-suburban idea as a personal attack on their decisions. LOL
Au contraire, Eddyline, semiurbanite's snark about how he wouldn't do that to his kids is, well, sanctimonious snark; implying those of us who did raise our kids in the burbs somehow shortchanged them. I thought this board had gotten over that crap.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 08-04-2014 at 06:32 PM..
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:05 PM
 
1,709 posts, read 1,676,130 times
Reputation: 1838
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Au contraire, Eddyline, semiurbanite's snark about how he wouldn't do that to his kids is, well, sanctimonious snark; implying those of us who did raise our kids in the burbs somehow shortchanged them. I thought this board had gotten over that crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by semiurbanite View Post
Personally, I would feel like I was shortchanging my kids and underestimating their needs by raising them in a homogeneous cul-de-sac in suburbia, but that's just me.
It's his opinion and his only that he would be shortchanging his kids with a suburban lifestyle. He explicitly states that it's how he personally feels. And it's not like he said that you are shortchanging your kids, he's saying that he feels the best way he can raise his own children is in an urban environment. It doesn't have to apply to you if you don't want it to.
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:11 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,634,943 times
Reputation: 33082
Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
It's his opinion and his only that he would be shortchanging his kids with a suburban lifestyle. He explicitly states that it's how he personally feels. And it's not like he said that you are shortchanging your kids, he's saying that he feels the best way he can raise his own children is in an urban environment. It doesn't have to apply to you if you don't want it to.
Oh, come on! "That's just me" is a common snark-ism, and sanctimonious to boot. If he feels he would be shortchanging his kids by living in the burbs, what does he think parents who live in the burbs are doing? You can play clever word games all you want, but the essence is that suburban kids are being "shortchanged".
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Old 08-04-2014, 11:05 PM
 
358 posts, read 360,119 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Oh, come on! "That's just me" is a common snark-ism, and sanctimonious to boot. If he feels he would be shortchanging his kids by living in the burbs, what does he think parents who live in the burbs are doing? You can play clever word games all you want, but the essence is that suburban kids are being "shortchanged".
I disagree. He was just stating his own opinion. It's pointless to speculate on what he may or may not think about parents who live in the burbs.

You don't need to feel defensive about where you raised your kids. It sounds to me like they had a great childhood in the suburbs. (So did I!)
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Old 08-05-2014, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Bronx
16,233 posts, read 18,704,733 times
Reputation: 8169
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
It looks like a lot of the focus here is on getting people to move to urban areas instead of suburban areas. Why? I know those of you who are younger think people should flock back to urban areas and you think that is the wave of the future. Maybe it is the wave of the future in the short term, but I think it will come full circle again when YOUR children decide they don't want to live in a population dense area and want room to spread out like their grandparents did.

I really don't understand the current push for urban living. The majority of the population is still going to live in the suburbs. A lot of the population never has and never will like urban living. I just don't understand trying to convince everyone that urban is better. To me, it's definitely not.
I have been studying this for the past five years or so. I really cant say why plenty of young millennials are moving to the cities and leaving the suburbs behind. Maybe its a new trend or fad, or maybe liberal forces of politics and economics is pushing urbanism along the ideal lines of Jane Jacobs and Richard Florida.

The reason for the flock back to cities is that suburbs lack sustainability like high cost of gas for home and commute, high cost of property taxes and so forth is one contributor. Another is the lack of jobs, cities have more job options than suburban job parks. Cities have more amenities than suburbs as well as cities being more environmentally friendly such as walkable, or using mass transit compared to using a gas guzzling car to get from point a to point b. The government on all levels from local, state and federal are not investing in cities so that they have more clustered housing with density, building more transportation options like bike lanes or ferries and so on.

The problem with today's urban planning is that it creates plenty of problems for many who live in cities. Most notably middle class and low income folks who can no longer afford to live in cities any more. A good example are cites such as NYC, SF, DC and Boston. These four legacy cities are going through major gentrification thanks to new urbanism. I live in NYC and I have seen major changes in the past ten years. More high end retail, property values went through the roof along with property taxes, if one could not afford property taxes the landlord would be forced to sell their property. Rents in new and revitalized urban areas have gone up. Subways have become more crowded as ever. You think taking the highway from work is bad. Take the L train from Brooklyn and going into Manhattan and you see what I mean. Jobs have become scarce for many locals. Plenty of young millennial college educated career types move to cities looking for jobs and will probably get hired, those who are from the city and not highly educated might be left in the dust or may have to pick up a low wage job to make ends meet. You see more police presence in certain neighborhoods with new urbanism, a generation ago we had broken windows form of policing and cops would dare venture into certain areas, but now they do due to increased money types moving into the inner city.

The big impact on new urbanism is the failure of liberalism which has become two faced lately. Example in new urban areas, its very common for the gentry to send their kids to private, charter and or parochial school, but will never send their kids to a local public school. I though new urbanism would change, bolster public education, but I was totally wrong. The suburbs will always have an advantage over the city when it comes to public education.

Me personally I was born and raised in a city and I'm tired of it, as well as I'm tired of New Urbanism which honestly has ruined by beloved NYC. I too prefer suburbs but a suburb with mix walkability and a minor core. Suburbs need to become sustainable especially in certain regions of the country like in the North East region and the in the Midwest. Also suburbs need to become more flexible with air rights and try to be less nimby. In some parts of the country suburbs are growing and thriving.
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Old 08-05-2014, 05:24 AM
 
Location: Tucson for awhile longer
8,872 posts, read 13,560,066 times
Reputation: 29033
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
No, I didn't say ANYONE was responding to a push. I have no idea about that, nor do I care. I don't care what ANYONE does - I just don't see why they are trying to push it on others (hence the reason that the thread doesn't say "why LIVE an urban lifestyle?") I only said I have SEEN a push - and no, not by the media, but by individuals who are in effect cheerleaders for the urban lifestyle.
Well, I've read every one of these 14 pages of posts and still have yet to see one LINK or even one credible EXAMPLE of what this "push" is, other than people being discouraged from using gas-guzzling vehicles, which seems to me to be more of an environmental suggestion, applicable whether one is living in a city, a suburb, or a rural area.

Not to mention I still have yet to hear an EXPLANATION of who "they" are. The OP keeps using the phrase "they are pushing," yet she has never stated who she's talking about. Someone else suggested the United Nations, but even the OP didn't touch that.

I think a "push" is when people are offered a financial incentive to do something. Such as the financial incentive that was given post-WWII to encourage people to move to the suburbs (favorable loan terms, roads built to lead drivers to suburbia that were paid for as much by people who didn't live there as people who did, government help to the developers of suburbia, etc.) When I get some credible examples of people being offered AFFORDABLE homes in urban areas with special loan rates (that don't involve things like them having to promise invest in rehabbing a deteriorating property and/or guarantee that the owner will live there for a certain number of years), then I will believe there is a "push." Until then, I remain unconvinced.
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Old 08-05-2014, 05:50 AM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
33,908 posts, read 42,154,529 times
Reputation: 43311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl View Post
Well, I've read every one of these 14 pages of posts and still have yet to see one LINK or even one credible EXAMPLE of what this "push" is, other than people being discouraged from using gas-guzzling vehicles, which seems to me to be more of an environmental suggestion, applicable whether one is living in a city, a suburb, or a rural area.

Not to mention I still have yet to hear an EXPLANATION of who "they" are. The OP keeps using the phrase "they are pushing," yet she has never stated who she's talking about. Someone else suggested the United Nations, but even the OP didn't touch that.

I think a "push" is when people are offered a financial incentive to do something. Such as the financial incentive that was given post-WWII to encourage people to move to the suburbs (favorable loan terms, roads built to lead drivers to suburbia that were paid for as much by people who didn't live there as people who did, government help to the developers of suburbia, etc.) When I get some credible examples of people being offered AFFORDABLE homes in urban areas with special loan rates (that don't involve things like them having to promise invest in rehabbing a deteriorating property and/or guarantee that the owner will live there for a certain number of years), then I will believe there is a "push." Until then, I remain unconvinced.

You've discounted various governmental initiatives, like PlanMD which I referenced earlier, that deny funding for infrastructure to non-urban areas. Others were also mentioned.

The problem with funding denials is that many times the targeted projects have been mandated by either the state or federal government. Enhanced Nitrogen Removal (ENR) for sewage treatment plants is one such.
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Old 08-05-2014, 06:09 AM
 
1,211 posts, read 888,152 times
Reputation: 1107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Oh, come on! "That's just me" is a common snark-ism, and sanctimonious to boot. If he feels he would be shortchanging his kids by living in the burbs, what does he think parents who live in the burbs are doing? You can play clever word games all you want, but the essence is that suburban kids are being "shortchanged".
So my tone was a little snarky, yes, but only because the OP seems to be begging for an explanation as to why urban living is becoming so popular. In my first post on the thread I think I covered that pretty well. However it was just my own opinion based on our interests and needs. To be honest, there are some families in my urban neighborhood that don't take advantage of the city and they should probably move to a leafy suburb where it will cost less and they will have more space. Not to mention someone can buy their home that will take advantage of what it has to offer.
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