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Old 08-06-2014, 10:54 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,003 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33059

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Visited Newton recently. It's not a typical suburb at all. It's like using Bethesda or Beverly Hills as an example*. The group of Newton high school grads were a great bunch, but I was told it's a high-stress competitive academic environment where many are trying to go to Ivy-League and similar schools.

*Not quite as extreme, but Boston doesn't have quite the extremes of wealth as DC or Los Angeles does.
Why is it that any example of a suburb that is not "sterile, soul-stealing" (etc) is considered "atypical" by the urbanists?

I will say in my kids' HS, the most popular college of attendance is the U of CO, second most popular is Front Range Community College. The most popular out-of-state college is Brigham Young U.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:56 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,988 posts, read 41,967,271 times
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Eschaton didn't say suburban schools are lily white, just that they are less diverse than urban magnet schools. At least half of the suburban Denver schools are still mostly white, the rest still majority white.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:59 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,988 posts, read 41,967,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Why is it that any example of a suburb that is not "sterile, soul-stealing" (etc) is considered "atypical" by the urbanists?
Did you read why I thought it's atypical? I said nothing about being "sterile or soul-stealing". It is a wealthy, extremely wealthy place in parts full of the highly educated. Using Newton as an example, where miu described a majority of kids on track to go to the "best" college is misleading. Its high school gets near magnet results without any entrance qualifications, and is of course than an actual whiter with a wealthier student body than a city magnet.

It is also an inner suburb, closer to city amnetities more than most suburbs. But that wasn't my objection.
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Old 08-06-2014, 11:10 AM
 
7,846 posts, read 5,289,200 times
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We force and urban lifestyle because suburban and rural infrastructure is too expensive to maintain. Urban lifestyle also tends to be healthier, as evidenced by obesity rates in New York State vs. the rural / suburban south.
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Old 08-06-2014, 11:22 AM
 
1,709 posts, read 1,674,850 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
We force and urban lifestyle because suburban and rural infrastructure is too expensive to maintain. Urban lifestyle also tends to be healthier, as evidenced by obesity rates in New York State vs. the rural / suburban south.
I don't think NY state vs. the South as a comparison for urban vs. rural health is fair or accurate. What about Southern cities? What about rural New York (like areas in Upstate)?

Additionally, several people have linked studies that urban lifestyle (meaning a dense, big-city lifestyle) can cause stress. Urbanity is only healthy when walkability and a fair amount of open spaces dotted here and there are involved. The health benefits can be questionable depending on what kind of "urban environment" you're living in.
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Old 08-06-2014, 11:25 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,003 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Eschaton didn't say suburban schools are lily white, just that they are less diverse than urban magnet schools. At least half of the suburban Denver schools are still mostly white, the rest still majority white.
eschaton made a blanket statement that urban magnet schools tend to be more diverse than a suburban neighborhood school. I showed that is untrue. It depends on the magnet, and it depends on the suburb. What makes you say at least half the suburban Denver schools are mostly white? I gave a few examples, but there are lots of schools here.

Denver School for the Arts is 65% white, the same as Centaurus HS. Denver School for Science and Technology is a charter school, so I guess it's stats don't really count. I thought it was a magnet.

Here's a suburban school for you:
Adams City High School (Commerce City) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
17% white

Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Did you read why I thought it's atypical? I said nothing about being "sterile or soul-stealing". It is a wealthy, extremely wealthy place in parts full of the highly educated. Using Newton as an example, where miu described a majority of kids on track to go to the "best" college is misleading. Its high school gets near magnet results without any entrance qualifications, and is of course than an actual whiter with a wealthier student body than a city magnet.

It is also an inner suburb, closer to city amnetities more than most suburbs. But that wasn't my objection.
No, you didn't use those words, but you can hardly deny that they've been bandied about this forum over and over. I could even go dig up some posts with those very words used to describe suburbs, all suburbs.
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Old 08-06-2014, 11:28 AM
 
226 posts, read 194,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Again, a campaign by who?



Cities became that in large part because people moved to the suburbs though. Any neighborhood, urban or suburban, get most of its social issues from the local population mix, not the built structure.
You just gave planners and architects everywhere heart attacks
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Old 08-06-2014, 11:32 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,988 posts, read 41,967,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
eschaton made a blanket statement that urban magnet schools tend to be more diverse than a suburban neighborhood school. I showed that is untrue. It depends on the magnet, and it depends on the suburb. What makes you say at least half the suburban Denver schools are mostly white? I gave a few examples, but there are lots of schools here.
I was going by the examples you gave, about half of your suburban Denver examples were mostly white. You didn't show that, as you made no comparison with any urban magnet schools.

Quote:
No, you didn't use those words, but you can hardly deny that they've been bandied about this forum over and over.
Well yes, but so what? I thought you were addressing my post and what I wrote. It's a bit difficult to have a conversation with someone who responses with something unrelated

Quote:
I could even go dig up some posts with those very words used to describe suburbs, all suburbs.
Spare me. No interested at all, why dig up paragraphs of these boring posts that don't say anything about urban planning? And it doesn't really relate to the conversation I was trying to have.
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Old 08-06-2014, 11:37 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,988 posts, read 41,967,271 times
Reputation: 14805
Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
I don't think NY state vs. the South as a comparison for urban vs. rural health is fair or accurate. What about Southern cities? What about rural New York (like areas in Upstate)?
For NY, downstate is overall less obese than upstate. Generally NYC does better than upstate after controlling for income (except for the Bronx, which is very poor, NYC does well in both obesity and life expectancy, even though the outer boroughs aren't wealthy). I would guess walkabilty does help, but there's one other glaring factor that I'll let others guess.

Quote:
Additionally, several people have linked studies that urban lifestyle (meaning a dense, big-city lifestyle) can cause stress. Urbanity is only healthy when walkability and a fair amount of open spaces dotted here and there are involved. The health benefits can be questionable depending on what kind of "urban environment" you're living in.
What studies? It's also difficult to decide if the urban lifestyle is the main factor or some other factor such as demographics, the types of jobs people have, etc. Likewise, it's hard to determine is walkability is a factor in health when there are so many other variables. Regression is the correct method to isolate, but it can be difficult.
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Old 08-06-2014, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,351 posts, read 7,508,813 times
Reputation: 15950
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Visited Newton recently. It's not a typical suburb at all. It's like using Bethesda or Beverly Hills as an example*. The group of Newton high school grads were a great bunch, but I was told it's a high-stress competitive academic environment where many are trying to go to Ivy-League and similar schools.

*Not quite as extreme, but Boston doesn't have quite the extremes of wealth as DC or Los Angeles does.
Newton represents the most concentrated collection of self-righteous, supposedly "progressive" advocates for the Nanny-state it has ever been my displeasure to encounter.

I would LOVE to see an exchange student program between Newton, MA and Arcadia, FL (the "community" where a couple of children infected with AIDS were driven out of town some years back). One town is every bit as intolerant as the other; it's just that one form of intolerance has become socially acceptable.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 08-06-2014 at 12:06 PM..
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