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Old 07-30-2014, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,068 posts, read 16,085,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
No one is trying to force anyone to do anything.

Some of us believe that government policy has encouraged suburban living over the last several decades, and we believe that either government should stop encouraging suburban living, or also encourage urban living.

In the context of human history, suburban living has been around for a relatively short time. Before that, people lived on farms, or in cities. So it's hard to say what portion of the population prefers urban/suburban/rural living.
Not really.

Suburbs are well over 2,000 years old. I mean, relatively short compared to Neanderthals, which spans back perhaps 600,000 years. But then they weren't really farming, either. Neanderthals are sometimes considered a subspecies of modern day homo sapiens.

A parallel argument is electricity. At least humans controlling it is a few thousand years newer than surburbs. I don't think it's hard to say that a very large majority of the population prefers to live with electricity as only a few choose to live without it.
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Old 07-30-2014, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Mt. Airy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Not really.

Suburbs are well over 2,000 years old. I mean, relatively short compared to Neanderthals, which spans back perhaps 600,000 years. But then they weren't really farming, either. Neanderthals are sometimes considered a subspecies of modern day homo sapiens.
Actually, it goes back 120 million years because the T-Rex didn't like living in town. They were really just looking for a place that was quiet where they could let their baby T-Rex's run free and where they could get a good consistent meal that wasn't too different or too expensive.
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Old 07-30-2014, 02:48 PM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,166,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
There is a book about this now, the trend deemed: Walkable Urbanism.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Option-Urb.../dp/1597261378

The thing is, lots more people these days, want to have the stuff they do often in walking distance. It doesn't matter if that occurs in a "city" or a "suburb."

There is this strange idea that "city" only comes in Manhattan form. And "suburb" only comes in sprawl form. You can build walkability into any sort of community.
very good point

and there is no right or wrong answer IMHO

to many factors to say its solely this or that and lastly every persons opinion and preference is correct to them
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Old 07-30-2014, 02:49 PM
 
2,553 posts, read 2,005,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Not really.

Suburbs are well over 2,000 years old. I mean, relatively short compared to Neanderthals, which spans back perhaps 600,000 years. But then they weren't really farming, either. Neanderthals are sometimes considered a subspecies of modern day homo sapiens.
Any examples of such a suburb? Because when I think of a suburb, I think of a place that is outside a central city and within the limits of travel distance based on the technology of the time.
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Old 07-30-2014, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,068 posts, read 16,085,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeconomist View Post
Any examples of such a suburb? Because when I think of a suburb, I think of a place that is outside a central city and within the limits of travel distance based on the technology of the time.
Babylon and Rome come to mind.
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Old 07-30-2014, 03:32 PM
 
1,709 posts, read 1,675,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Babylon and Rome come to mind.
What? Those are central cities. Name suburbs from 2,000 years ago.
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Old 07-30-2014, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Mt. Airy
5,311 posts, read 5,332,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
What? Those are central cities. Name suburbs from 2,000 years ago.
I have to say, I'm hoping for something like "Trickling Creek Estates" or "Green Pines Manner". More appropriately for the times, it could be "Rape and Pillage Pointe".

Either way, I'm imagining riders in horseback congestion during rush hour. A yuppie Roman knight riding up the right side and merging at the last minute and p***ing everyone in line off.

Last edited by AJNEOA; 07-30-2014 at 03:51 PM..
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Old 07-30-2014, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,068 posts, read 16,085,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
What? Those are central cities. Name suburbs from 2,000 years ago.
Suburbs of Babylon and Rome. Hell if I know if they even had names, let alone what they are. The point is their existence is well documented, especially with ancient Rome.
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Old 07-30-2014, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Tucson for awhile longer
8,872 posts, read 13,554,924 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
As I have said repeatedly since the initial post, it's not so much "force" as trying to persuade people that urban living is desirable and the "in" thing now. I have seen a push toward urban living in the last few years, but especially in the last year.

But the fact remains that in terms of total population, urban dwellers are in the minority. I don't think that is going to change anytime soon, if ever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
I appreciate your balanced reply!

I grew up in the suburbs and lived in urban Kansas City as an adult when I couldn't afford to live in the suburbs. As soon as I could afford it, I returned to the suburbs. There were no amenities in urban areas that I don't also have easy access to in the suburbs.

But I do understand that some younger people are looking for that experience, and that's fine. I just don't like the urban = good/suburban = bad attitude. But in fairness, I guess I think suburban = good, urban = bad - so perhaps we're even.
So if someone wants a taste of urban living at a certain point in their life, that's OK with you, but those who make a permanent commitment to urban life are responding to "a push"?

If you consider government policy as a type of push, then you have to say that the push in post-World War II period has been a push to encourage suburban development. Government-provided Federal Housing Administration and Veterans Administration mortgages favor suburbs over urban areas in doling out loans. We also know that when loaning money for home purchases, the FHA favors new construction to old and established areas. Entire neighborhoods in declining areas were traditionally "red-lined," preventing people from investing in and improving urban areas. See a comprehensive report on this subject called Federal Subsidy and the Suburban Dream: The First Quarter-Century of Government Intervention in the Housing Market by Kenneth T. Jackson, published by the Historical Society of Washington, DC. http://ti.org/JacksonFedSubsidies&Suburbs.pdf

The effect of this is magnified by federal taxation policy that favors homeowners over renters (more likely to be urban) through the mortgage tax benefits.

The massive highway-building program that began post-WWII (and presaged the decline of U.S. railroads) was financed by the Federal government with funding coming from ALL citizens, even though it largely benefited suburban and rural areas. Even now, in the midst of an decades-old oil crisis, government transportation policy favors highway construction over mass transit, with highway projects funding matches still going at 80-90% while Federal matching funds for urban transit projects have decreased dramatically. (Not to mention Federal subsidies for oil companies continue unabated, further benefiting the suburbs, exurbs, and rural areas.)
How America's Federal Funding Policy Heavily Favors Roads Over Transit - Light Rail Now

If you know any pushes toward urbanization that would counteract the effects of these multi-billion dollar ones, please provide some links. Just because there is a trend and the media reports on that trend doesn't mean the trend is actually being encouraged, let alone pushed onto anyone except those who choose to jump on trends immediately. For example, there is a trend to legalize (or at least somewhat decriminalize) marijuana use. Does that mean media merely reporting on this trend are, ipso facto, encouraging it? It seems unlikely to me that people are going to move house just to participate in a trend.
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Old 07-30-2014, 05:06 PM
 
13,044 posts, read 15,397,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl View Post
So if someone wants a taste of urban living at a certain point in their life, that's OK with you, but those who make a permanent commitment to urban life are responding to "a push"?

.
No, I didn't say ANYONE was responding to a push. I have no idea about that, nor do I care. I don't care what ANYONE does - I just don't see why they are trying to push it on others (hence the reason that the thread doesn't say "why LIVE an urban lifestyle?") I only said I have SEEN a push - and no, not by the media, but by individuals who are in effect cheerleaders for the urban lifestyle.
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