U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-06-2014, 09:45 PM
 
Location: New York City
4,036 posts, read 8,935,865 times
Reputation: 3703

Advertisements

Wendell Cox is a very biased and tendentious demographer. I agree that the picture of where 20-somethings are actually living is complex and varied, but even a cursory glance makes the numbers look cherry-picked. Of course the highest growth is in low-cost areas of Texas and California known for attracting immigrants. But it's because the population has increased dramatically as a whole, not just Millennials. Also, is it useful to look at 18 to 29 year olds living at home? Many people are still at home at 18 because they're still in school. Yes, more people are living at home longer, but there's a huge difference between living at home at 28 vs. 18. The numbers in the article don't make that distinction.

Kotkin and Cox are so caught up in their politics that the lose sight of their real insight: cost of living plays a huge part (likely determinative for the majority of the population) in how and where people choose to live. Put another way, all the planning in the world isn't useful for the vast majority of people if it doesn't address housing costs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-11-2014, 04:15 PM
 
539 posts, read 404,476 times
Reputation: 630
I think a major factor in Millennial's moving towards the city is DUI's. 30 years ago when our parents were young, DUI's were not nearly as big of a deal. Today, they are a huge deal and can really hurt your career. Young people want to be able to walk to bars and walk home, so they don't have to risk DUI's (and death).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2014, 04:16 PM
 
539 posts, read 404,476 times
Reputation: 630
But student loans are taking this away from Millenials, so more are forced to spend the weekends commuting to their lucky friends apartments in the city.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2014, 11:17 PM
 
8,328 posts, read 14,556,250 times
Reputation: 4048
Kotkin is basically setting up a straw man by suggesting that the surveys of the best cities for millenials are somehow the only places where millenials are moving. As we see the hyper-gentrification of places like New York City and San Francisco, of course plenty of millenials can't afford to live there--but living in a second-order city doesn't mean that millenials actually love the suburbs. Those sprawling car-dependent cities are starting to look inward and make repairs, which attracts the urban customer, whether they are Millenials, Generation X or Boomers. Ranking cities by growth as a percentage of population is also kind of a funky comparison. For New York City's population to go up by 1%, 83,000 people have to move in. For Madison, Wisconsin, an increase of 2400 is also a 1% population increase--and for a lot of young adults looking for a place that is both affordable and interesting, Madison might be a lot better choice. Cities with Madison's price points (and populations) are starting to see their downtowns take on more New Yorkish characteristics as a result.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2014, 07:21 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,987 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33050
Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
Kotkin is basically setting up a straw man by suggesting that the surveys of the best cities for millenials are somehow the only places where millenials are moving. As we see the hyper-gentrification of places like New York City and San Francisco, of course plenty of millenials can't afford to live there--but living in a second-order city doesn't mean that millenials actually love the suburbs. Those sprawling car-dependent cities are starting to look inward and make repairs, which attracts the urban customer, whether they are Millenials, Generation X or Boomers. Ranking cities by growth as a percentage of population is also kind of a funky comparison. For New York City's population to go up by 1%, 83,000 people have to move in. For Madison, Wisconsin, an increase of 2400 is also a 1% population increase--and for a lot of young adults looking for a place that is both affordable and interesting, Madison might be a lot better choice. Cities with Madison's price points (and populations) are starting to see their downtowns take on more New Yorkish characteristics as a result.
Now that is hyperbole of the first order. Downtown Madison is NEVER going to resemble downtown NYC, ever. Part of NYC's "persona" is because of the large population. I remember one time, years, yea, decades ago when my ex-husband went on a business trip to NYC. We were living in Wilmington, DE at the time, a city with a pretty urban form itself. He said NYC made d/t Wilmington look like the outback. He was from Chicago, BTW.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 08-13-2014 at 07:55 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2014, 07:51 AM
 
28,441 posts, read 71,005,190 times
Reputation: 18395
Default If the article is biased then what about the replies...

...I mean sure Madison WI is much less dense than any part of NYC, but it is the State capital, has always had a fairly large contingent of well paid University faculty / state higher ups, a big contingent of well regarded physicians at its various hospitals, an extensive system of public transit, decent employment options not directly related to either the university or State government by virtue of well planned office parks and such -- heck anybody young or old with a family or single would be well advised to consider it IF they can afford it and understand the challenges of upper Midwest...

Similarly the movement of college educated young people in the Midwest and even the Great Plains and traditional South is very very different than folks that may themselves have entered the US via the Southwest without legal rights and/or be related to close families that have done so. The first group of people is among the most mobile generation anywhere while the latter is, even in relatively lax enforcement climate of current poltical environment, theoretically facing potential deportation / famial disslocation. Where is the "accounting" for that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2014, 08:23 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,983 posts, read 41,929,314 times
Reputation: 14804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Now that is hyperbole of the first order. Downtown Madison is NEVER going to resemble downtown NYC, ever. Part of NYC's "persona" is because of the large population. I remember one time, years, yea, decades ago when my ex-husband went on a business trip to NYC. We were living in Wilmington, DE at the time, a city with a pretty urban form itself. He said NYC made d/t Wilmington look like the outback. He was from Chicago, BTW.
I haven't been to Wilmington (well, except passing through on I-95), but it seems like it's typical of cities of its size density/ form-wise to other cities of its size, at least along the coast. But it's obviously not a big city, Chicago would be a much better comparison. My mom thought downtown Chicago seemed obviously less crowded than New York City, I've heard others from NYC say similar. But I thought you've said you've been to NYC?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2014, 08:45 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,987 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33050
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I haven't been to Wilmington (well, except passing through on I-95), but it seems like it's typical of cities of its size density/ form-wise to other cities of its size, at least along the coast. But it's obviously not a big city, Chicago would be a much better comparison. My mom thought downtown Chicago seemed obviously less crowded than New York City, I've heard others from NYC say similar. But I thought you've said you've been to NYC?
Yes, I have been to NYC. My spouse was just giving me his impression of it, vis Wilmington. And to make a point, he was from Chicago, so it's not like he'd never seen a big city before.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2014, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Dallas
2,092 posts, read 2,571,400 times
Reputation: 3428
Why does Forbes pay Joel Kotkin to write the same article over and over again?
__________________
MODERATOR FOR AUSTIN, DALLAS, FORT LAUDERDALE, & TEXAS
Terms of Service/FAQ/Information for Realtors
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2014, 12:15 AM
 
8,328 posts, read 14,556,250 times
Reputation: 4048
If people are assuming that by "resemblance to New York" I mean "throngs of people and massive skyscrapers" they're taking what I say far too literally.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top