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Old 10-21-2014, 08:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
The cost comes because it has to be completely separated from people so they don't electrocute themselves. With overhead cables, trains can be safely run down streets with little to no separation.

Indeed, the third rail systems must be isolated from human traffic. I was strictly comparing the hardware differences.
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Old 10-21-2014, 08:14 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
The cost comes because it has to be completely separated from people so they don't electrocute themselves. With overhead cables, trains can be safely run down streets with little to no separation.
high frequency rail systems generally should be completely separated from people anyway. Boston's blue line is an interesting example of both, it switches from third rail to overhead cables. Still completely grade separated:

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4072...uMeYXl1iXA!2e0
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Old 10-21-2014, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P47P47 View Post
The third rail runs on the ties which would be there anyway and are relatively low-maintenance, as is the rail itself. Catenary requires overhead support structures over the entire system.
Thats true, but in subways the wires can be hung from the tunnel roof. So it doesn't really require much overhead support structure.

Regardless I think the safety concerns of third rail should override what little cost savings there would be, and catenary should be standard where ever possible.
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Old 10-21-2014, 02:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
Thats true, but in subways the wires can be hung from the tunnel roof. So it doesn't really require much overhead support structure.

I don't think that there's quite enough clearance for the wires plus the structure on the cars that picks up the power. There certainly wasn't a lot of room for the Radiax communications cable that I hung from the top of the tunnel in the Baltimore subway.
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Old 10-21-2014, 05:33 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hurricaneMan1992 View Post
If we had not first built expressways, would there be so many outlying low-density suburbs?

Perhaps if European cities had not built out their great subway systems, they'd be more like American cities today.

Good infrastructure spurs good development--whether it's a walkable city or an outer suburb, you need the infrastructure in place (or being constructed) in order to encourage development.

In a sense, "you get what you pay for" applies here.
All but the largest European cities built their subways late 50s and afterwards
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Old 10-22-2014, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the city View Post
I believe light rail and bus ways are the new thing.

An example of one planned in NorCal:

Smart Train North Bay Sonoma Marin | SMART Sonoma Marin Area Rail Transit | Passenger train and multi-use pathway project

I wish SoCal and other areas had more light rail like Ventura County.
What?

Ventura County has no rail other than the Amtrak and a leg of the Los Angeles-based Metrolink. LA County has LRT, HRT and Commuter Rail (the aforementioned Metrolink). San Diego County has two separate LRT lines (one in North County and one based around DT San Diego).

It is true that the other counties in Southern California (San Bernardino, Riverside, Orange, Santa Barbara) are lacking in rail.
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Old 10-22-2014, 04:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
What?

Ventura County has no rail other than the Amtrak and a leg of the Los Angeles-based Metrolink. LA County has LRT, HRT and Commuter Rail (the aforementioned Metrolink). San Diego County has two separate LRT lines (one in North County and one based around DT San Diego).

It is true that the other counties in Southern California (San Bernardino, Riverside, Orange, Santa Barbara) are lacking in rail.
I was referring to I wish VC had more rail and SoCal lacks in rail compared to the Bay Area.
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Old 10-23-2014, 12:38 AM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P47P47 View Post
I don't think that there's quite enough clearance for the wires plus the structure on the cars that picks up the power. There certainly wasn't a lot of room for the Radiax communications cable that I hung from the top of the tunnel in the Baltimore subway.
It doesn't seem to be a problem in Japan.


Last edited by KaaBoom; 10-23-2014 at 01:28 AM..
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Old 10-23-2014, 06:49 AM
 
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Interesting. Thanks for the photo. The only subway system that I have any real familiarity with is the one here in Baltimore, as a draftsman/designer for an electrical contractor on the first phase of its construction. When I mentioned that I hung Radiax cable in the tunnel, I meant that figuratively, in that I designed a special hanger for it and specified where and how the cable and hangers would be installed.


When the tracks are below grade or aerial, the problem of isolating third rail power from the public is pretty well taken care of. For at-grade locations, it's pretty much a matter of putting up fence on either side of the tracks, with pedestrian crossings where they're most useful, and recognizing that there are just going to be some nuts who have to breach the security in order to save a few steps and get hit or electrocuted.
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Old 10-25-2014, 09:01 AM
 
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I like street cars myself but it's so expensive to build anything due to excessive government regulations and political corruption we shall never see much improvement in public transportation.
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