U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 10-02-2015, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
3,718 posts, read 4,787,260 times
Reputation: 1454

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joke Insurance View Post
How is it that countries such as Spain, Turkey, India, Italy and China can plan and build them like clockwork, but it takes the US decades?
Anyone know?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-02-2015, 08:43 AM
 
1,915 posts, read 2,050,065 times
Reputation: 2192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joke Insurance View Post
Anyone know?
Because those countries DON'T have:
--Endless environmental impact reports
--NIMBYs who lobby to stop anything from disrupting their "historic" neighborhood
--Other choices, like moving somewhere else, at least nowhere near the extent that Americans do
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2015, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,068 posts, read 16,085,690 times
Reputation: 12641
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickB1967 View Post
Because those countries DON'T have:
--Endless environmental impact reports
--NIMBYs who lobby to stop anything from disrupting their "historic" neighborhood
--Other choices, like moving somewhere else, at least nowhere near the extent that Americans do
All that and the other big one is we already built them. The major cities without subways already don't really seem that suited to them. Phoenix? Houston? And it's not like they're not getting built here. Both Seattle and San Francisco have subway projects under construction. LA already has a subway, San Jose is moving that direction although still planning. That pretty much just leaves San Diego and I guess Portland as far as the major cities in the West Coast which won't have them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2015, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Midwest
4,628 posts, read 3,973,088 times
Reputation: 6623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joke Insurance View Post
Anyone know?
Because they are extremely expensive, especially with the sprawl of American cities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-03-2015, 04:06 PM
 
Location: A subtropical paradise
2,069 posts, read 2,199,967 times
Reputation: 1329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
All that and the other big one is we already built them. The major cities without subways already don't really seem that suited to them. Phoenix? Houston? And it's not like they're not getting built here. Both Seattle and San Francisco have subway projects under construction. LA already has a subway, San Jose is moving that direction although still planning. That pretty much just leaves San Diego and I guess Portland as far as the major cities in the West Coast which won't have them.
I can't speak for Phoenix, but Houston does indeed have a grid set-up suitable for high density development, including that pertaining to mass transit like subway systems.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-03-2015, 04:18 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,979,923 times
Reputation: 14805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
All that and the other big one is we already built them. The major cities without subways already don't really seem that suited to them. Phoenix? Houston? And it's not like they're not getting built here. Both Seattle and San Francisco have subway projects under construction. LA already has a subway, San Jose is moving that direction although still planning. That pretty much just leaves San Diego and I guess Portland as far as the major cities in the West Coast which won't have them.
I'd say the cities that could use subways aren't ones that have no subways yet but ones that already have subways but use another line. Construction in most US cities for subways are often several times higher than western European counties (take a look at Parisian or Madrid subway costs per mile). With cheaper costs, more lines would be more practical. Or, not exactly subways but better use of commuter rail. Boston could electrify some of inner commuter rail lines and run them at BART-like frequencies; they cover similar type areas as the non-far flung parts of BART, and the tracks are there.

San Diego and Portland are neither dense enough nor centralized enough for subways to make sense; they already have light rail. Honolulu is building a grade-separated rapid transit line (elevated).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-03-2015, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,068 posts, read 16,085,690 times
Reputation: 12641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA View Post
I can't speak for Phoenix, but Houston does indeed have a grid set-up suitable for high density development, including that pertaining to mass transit like subway systems.
Which is irrelevant as grids have precisely nothing to do with density. It's an American obsession, nothing more. I can count the number of grids I saw in Europe and Asia on the fingers of my third hand.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-03-2015, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,068 posts, read 16,085,690 times
Reputation: 12641
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I'd say the cities that could use subways aren't ones that have no subways yet but ones that already have subways but use another line. Construction in most US cities for subways are often several times higher than western European counties (take a look at Parisian or Madrid subway costs per mile). With cheaper costs, more lines would be more practical. Or, not exactly subways but better use of commuter rail. Boston could electrify some of inner commuter rail lines and run them at BART-like frequencies; they cover similar type areas as the non-far flung parts of BART, and the tracks are there.

San Diego and Portland are neither dense enough nor centralized enough for subways to make sense; they already have light rail. Honolulu is building a grade-separated rapid transit line (elevated).
Yeah, neither Portland or San Diego are really what I'd call logical candidates for a subway either. They are, however, the next most logical candidates seeing as how everything that's more urban already has a subway or like Seattle is building it. Seattle is kind of in that boat and the subway, at least to me, does not at present make much sense. In another 20 years if it keeps building up the downtown area at that rate it is, however, it will. That's a mixed bag. That was also the rational Portland used. It used free federal money to buy a level of transit it expected it could pay based on job and population growth it had experienced in recent years but that failed to materialize to pay for the transit. It's best to be a bit conservative when forecasting the future rather than swing for the fences as Portland did and is paying for now.

How much benefit would Boston really get from that electrifying those lines at what cost? BART expansion is mostly going with diesel as it just doesn't make sense to electrify it. Electrification of Caltrain likewise has long been an option but it's never made any sense to do it. It'll electrify as part of CA HSR but absent that it hasn't as it makes no sense to.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2015, 12:42 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
6,853 posts, read 3,394,400 times
Reputation: 2339
My city is building a new metro/subway system, ready to be completed by 2020 or around then.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2015, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Lakeland, Florida
6,972 posts, read 12,490,008 times
Reputation: 8719
With the exception of a few US cities. I don't think many are capable of building an efficient bus system, let alone a subway system. The competence level just isn't there. However the car dealers are all over the place. We are expected to own a car in this country, and politics and corporations keep us in cars intentionally. Building subways in the bigger US cities, should have been done years ago. I wish it had, and since it was not. I wish subways were being built right now, I just don't see it happening in this country. Not with the limited controlling mindsets in the US. Sorry I say it like it is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top