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Old 08-16-2014, 03:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
There is a lot of neighborhood types between skyscraper and sprawling modern suburbs......

This is the neighborhood next to mine. Does this look like a modern suburb or a skyscraper city?
Commercial area: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gr...85d197e60cff54
Residential area on adjacent block: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gr...85d197e60cff54

It looks like a suburb or suburb-like neighborhood (low building height, wide streets, lack of pedestrians, single family homes).
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddyline View Post
A friend put this in perspective when she asked me, "Have you EVER walked to a McDonalds?"
Why, yes! Plenty of times. Not all McDonald's restaurants are in suburban shopping developments, ya know. And even the ones that are may be accessible on foot; the one four blocks from my mom's house, for instance. Four-lane main drag, but there are sidewalks connecting the shopping district to the residential district.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
My husband walks to Wendy's several days a week for lunch. He used to walk to a McDonald's from his other office. This Wendy's is a standard Wendy's with a big parking lot and drive-through in Boulder. The walk is not particularly "entertaining". (It's not the Pearl St. Mall with their musicians, fire jugglers, etc.)
Oops, I forgot that walking had to be "entertaining". My bad.
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Old 08-17-2014, 12:40 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,170 posts, read 29,842,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
It looks like a suburb or suburb-like neighborhood (low building height, wide streets, lack of pedestrians, single family homes).
It's 2 miles from downtown. Actually it is busy with pedestrians, but doesn't have offices so you can find times in the morning when there aren't tons of people since it is a neighborhood serving commercial district. It is also pegged for a road diet in the coming years. It isn't particularly car friendly.

Blocks have single family and multi family homes. If you do the 360 view you'll see both single and multi family. Typical multi family is about 4 floors and overall neighborhood density is ~12k. Not exactly uber suburban. It is basically the center of Oakland.
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Old 08-17-2014, 09:34 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,993 posts, read 42,266,322 times
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An ancedote by Paul Krugman:

I can personally attest to the importance of these environmental effects. These days, I walk around with a pedometer on my wrist — hey, I’m 61, and it’s now or never — and it’s obvious just how much more natural it is to get exercise when I’m in New York than when I’m in Princeton; just a few choices to walk rather than take the subway fairly easily gets me to 15,000 steps in the city, while even with a morning run it can be hard to break 10,000 in the suburbs.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/201...fairly-trivial

Sure, someone in the burbs who makes a concerted efforts to get lots of walking done can, and some could figure out a way to avoid walking in New York. But many people do the options that are convenient, environment affects the choices one makes. And while you can always pick out individuals, the overall or population averages is what matters. Of course, the amount of walking may be insufficient to affect your weight alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Yes, obesity is complicated. That's why I have problems with these studies that try to link it to where a person lives. It's an individual thing. You can live in a super-walkable neighborhood and never walk anywhere! It's your own personal lifestyle, among other things.
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Old 08-17-2014, 09:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
It's 2 miles from downtown. Actually it is busy with pedestrians, but doesn't have offices so you can find times in the morning when there aren't tons of people since it is a neighborhood serving commercial district. It is also pegged for a road diet in the coming years. It isn't particularly car friendly.
People typically park in front of the shops and walk from there. That's not really a pedestrian, anymore than a person who parks their car in the Target parking lot and walks across the parking lot to the front entrance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Blocks have single family and multi family homes. If you do the 360 view you'll see both single and multi family. Typical multi family is about 4 floors and overall neighborhood density is ~12k. Not exactly uber suburban. It is basically the center of Oakland.
What you describe is typical residential neighborhood and housing style in the west bay an area that includes SF, Oakland and inner ring suburbs Berkeley, El Cerrito, Albany, Richmond, etc. where you see a lot of small lot single-family and duplexes. The built form is still suburban but just more compact, than the medium to large lot single family homes that are more common in the outer ring suburbs of the east bay, south bay and peninsula. The small lot residential neighborhoods are very large and stretch for miles, the key being they are residential not mixed use. I used to live in the Sunset in SF, and El Cerrito which borders Oakland and Berkeley. Same thing. Typically, you're going to be doing a lot of driving in these neighborhoods and not much walking. Though I did walk to the BART station everyday when I lived in El Cerrito and commuted into the city by train.
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Old 08-17-2014, 09:53 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,993 posts, read 42,266,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
What you describe is typical residential neighborhood and housing style in the west bay an area that includes SF, Oakland and inner ring suburbs Berkeley, El Cerrito, Albany, Richmond, etc. where you see a lot of small lot single-family and duplexes. The built form is still suburban but just more compact, than the medium to large lot single family homes that are more common in the outer ring suburbs of the east bay, south bay and peninsula.
Still, those neighborhoods make it easier for those who want to walk: more likely to have things in walking distance and less spots are truly pedestrian hostile.
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Old 08-17-2014, 10:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Still, those neighborhoods make it easier for those who want to walk: more likely to have things in walking distance and less spots are truly pedestrian hostile.
Yes I would say they were marginally better for pedestrians.
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Old 08-17-2014, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,148 posts, read 103,038,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
An ancedote by Paul Krugman:

I can personally attest to the importance of these environmental effects. These days, I walk around with a pedometer on my wrist — hey, I’m 61, and it’s now or never — and it’s obvious just how much more natural it is to get exercise when I’m in New York than when I’m in Princeton; just a few choices to walk rather than take the subway fairly easily gets me to 15,000 steps in the city, while even with a morning run it can be hard to break 10,000 in the suburbs.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/201...fairly-trivial

Sure, someone in the burbs who makes a concerted efforts to get lots of walking done can, and some could figure out a way to avoid walking in New York. But many people do the options that are convenient, environment affects the choices one makes. And while you can always pick out individuals, the overall or population averages is what matters. Of course, the amount of walking may be insufficient to affect your weight alone.
The plural of anecdote is not data. Krugman is pretty stuck on himself (I"ve heard him on TED talks). Big whoop what he thinks. He should have my job. He'll get his 10,000 steps in, even if he could drive up to the office door.
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Old 08-17-2014, 10:59 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,993 posts, read 42,266,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
The plural of anecdote is not data.
I know that, an ancedote is just an anecdote. The point was changing environment resulting in more walking without much thought of effort. I like a lot Krugman's stuff, but that's irrelevant. And yes, he's pompous but so what? I'd take his statement more seriously than a CD poster in any case.
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Old 08-17-2014, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,148 posts, read 103,038,517 times
Reputation: 33191
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I know that, an ancedote is just an anecdote. The point was changing environment resulting in more walking without much thought of effort. I like a lot Krugman's stuff, but that's irrelevant. And yes, he's pompous but so what? I'd take his statement more seriously than a CD poster in any case.
Why? He's an economist, not a public health expert.
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