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Old 08-19-2014, 06:00 AM
 
584 posts, read 959,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Mile High is used for a lot more than football games. I once went to a bridal fair there with my daughter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Yeah, I have to agree with this as well . Football stadiums tend to be a lot of dead wasted space.
Lucas Oil Stadium hosts more than football, including basketball, proms, concerts, conferences, Drum Corps International events, Indiana's state marching band finals, and Bands of America marching band events.

Last edited by Anony-Momma; 08-19-2014 at 06:19 AM..
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Old 08-19-2014, 06:34 AM
 
5,223 posts, read 5,093,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james777 View Post

The stadium that started the bring the stadiums downtown movement from the suburbs, Oriole Park at Camden Yards in Baltimore, was successful because it brought fans and celebrants downtown, but many blocks were condemned to get the land to build it, displacing many businesses and over 5,000 jobs, many of which relocated to the suburbs.

A little clarification.

Memorial Stadium, which was replaced by Camden Yards, was not in the suburbs. It was actually located more centrally in uptown Baltimore, at 33rd St. and Ellerslie Ave., which was a difficult location to get to, if you didn't know EXACTLY how to get there, and, more importantly, how to get back after the game, when it's dark, streets are now one-way in the opposite direction, and that cop won't let you turn where you were expecting to be able to.
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Old 08-19-2014, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Currently living in Reddit
5,655 posts, read 5,701,517 times
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Different cultures, IMO, so I generally agree with the NFL outside the city, MLB/NBA/NHL closer in.

Football ticket holders tend to make a day of attending the game - make plans ahead of the game, park early, tailgate, etc. NFL games are also mostly on weekends and in the afternoon, generally at times when transportation infrastructure isn't overly taxed (exception being MNF/TNF).

The other major sports are something you do after work, so either walkability or transit solutions from the core business center are more important. In MLB's case, as tickets are generally far more affordable than other majors sports, there is also the impulse factor buy. The exception to this are Brewers fans who've made tailgating a new tradition for baseball - a concept that likely wouldn't work on the East Coast.

That said, location also has to do with the culture of the metro area. IMO, the Patriots could've put their stadium in Nashua, NH and seen no difference in attendance. In Pittsburgh, planners could've put Heinz Field an hour outside the city and it would have no effect on attendance. The number of Milwaukee-area people who are season-ticket holders under their "Gold Plan" and travel two hours or more for a Packers game attests to the concept that an NFL stadium could be located extremely far away from an urban center. Shafer Stadium in Foxboro was accessible only via local streets that could make getting into the parking lots a good 90 minute ordeal.

But, the location of Heinz Field is fairly unique as much of the parking used for tailgating sits on land unsuited for building (under highway bridges) while also sharing lots with nearby PNC - where the same lots are used by daily commuters who park, then walk over the Clemente Bridge or use light rail to go downtown. In effect, a high percentage of parking for Heinz Field is multi-use, thus somewhat justifying what in another city might be underutilized land.

As far as NFL stadiums holding other events (weddings/conventions/concerts), other than for major concerts, this business typically could be handled by other venues in the metro area and does not represent unique revenue to the city/metro.
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Old 08-19-2014, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
32,377 posts, read 59,836,421 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james777 View Post
The stadium that started the bring the stadiums downtown movement from the suburbs, Oriole Park at Camden Yards in Baltimore, was successful because it brought fans and celebrants downtown
Camden Yards was built in 1992. There were no stadiums downtown before that?

I can think of a half dozen just off the top of my head.
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:07 AM
 
2,690 posts, read 4,409,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Philly has both - for better or worse for Philly they have all 4 teams play in the same area and share the parking lots as well as the subway access.

The Subway station at the stadiums has the highest single time boarding capactiy of any subway station in N America - potentially the world

The station was designed to simultaneously load 8 different subway trains at once. I believe the station was designed to board ~30-40K riders in 15 minutes (I don't believe it has ever met this volume however)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_(SEPTA_station)

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ci...0212debd7535fa
The Philly system is actually a pretty good one (subway makes the complex easy to get to), but I wouldn't consider the stadiums to be in the city (I know they technically are, but they aren't in Center City, West Philly, the Northern Liberties...).

All in all, it's probably the best compromise, as you can tailgate before games or take the subway.
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:10 AM
JJG
 
Location: Fort Worth
13,247 posts, read 19,179,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete. View Post
Baseball seasons are long and can have multiple home games per week, bringing in a lot of summertime foot traffic to the downtown area. This can be good for the surrounding businesses and overall downtown vibrancy.

Football stadiums are used for 8 home games a year, so any kind of residual benefit would be negligible.
True for the most part.

But you have to keep in mind that some football stadiums hold MANY different events and not just NFL or college games.

Those would be:

- Cowboys Stadium (I refuse to call it "AT&T")
- Reliant Stadium (I refuse to call it "NRG")
- Lucas Oil Field
- Georgia Dome
- Louisiana Superdome
- Alamodome
- Ford Field
- University of Phoenix Stadium
- New Vikings Stadium
- New Falcons Stadium
- New L.A. Stadium... if it ever gets built.

And there's CenturyLink Field in Seattle which also holds MLS.

In addition to NFL, these places host, have hosted, or will host:

- College Football games (Kickoffs, regular season, rival, Bowls, playoffs, and NCGs)
- High School football (regular season and playoffs)
- Final Four's
- Motocross/Monster Jams
- MLS and major soccer matches
- SEVERAL concerts and rallies
- Conventions
- and in Houston's case, the rodeo.

Sure, most football stadiums are practically useless outside of football season, but there are some football stadiums that are really just multi-purpose facilities with football being the main purpose. So depending on what it features and has to offer in terms of year-round usage, I'd say it's ok to have a football stadium near downtown.

Or at the very least, connected to some kind of rail.
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:29 AM
 
358 posts, read 359,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJG View Post
True for the most part.

But you have to keep in mind that some football stadiums hold MANY different events and not just NFL or college games.

Those would be:

- Cowboys Stadium (I refuse to call it "AT&T")
- Reliant Stadium (I refuse to call it "NRG")
- Lucas Oil Field
- Georgia Dome
- Louisiana Superdome
- Alamodome
- Ford Field
- University of Phoenix Stadium
- New Vikings Stadium
- New Falcons Stadium
- New L.A. Stadium... if it ever gets built.
I completely understand that many football stadiums get used for multiple purposes. It looks like about half of those you listed are located outside of their cities' downtowns, which is what I suggest. I just feel that baseball stadiums are more of a consistent "daily driver" for activity.

Now here's a potentially controversial opinion: I think football is meant to be played outdoors, not in a dome!
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:44 AM
JJG
 
Location: Fort Worth
13,247 posts, read 19,179,706 times
Reputation: 7005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete. View Post
I completely understand that many football stadiums get used for multiple purposes. It looks like about half of those you listed are located outside of their cities' downtowns, which is what I suggest. I just feel that baseball stadiums are more of a consistent "daily driver" for activity.

Now here's a potentially controversial opinion: I think football is meant to be played outdoors, not in a dome!
Yeah, that's caveman talk. Not gonna get into that one.

Only 3 of those stadiums I listed were outside of downtown with Reliant at least connected to rail. Not sure about Phoenix. For the most part, football stadiums are built outside of downtown and have been for a long time. But like I said, they can be part of downtown depending on how much it is planned to be used.

Some even have special a purpose, like the Cotton Bowl, which is just about a mile and a half outside of downtown Dallas. It's only used about 4 times a year now with no full-time tenant, but remains because it's a main feature of the State Fair of Texas.
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:45 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,003 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
That makes more sense, though sounds like an awkward place for a bridal show, but I don't know the space at all, so it could work. Still NFL stadiums don't tend to get as much year round activity that something like an NBA arena would.
You sure as heck don't want to be confused with the fact, do you? Poster after poster has given examples of what their stadiums are used for in addition to football games, and yet still you say they don't get as much use. NBA isn't year round, either (though sometimes it feels like it!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Mile High is not really downtown though, it's on the fringes of downtown. Denver has done it right. The Baseball and arena are closer to downtown while the football stadium is near downtown so it's close enough to help downtown when its being used and you can use transit to access it, but it's not wasted dead space in the heart of the city when not being use nor does it completely overwhelm downtown with parking and traffic the during games days.

Kansas City's Arrowhead stadium is in a perfect location. A near downtown location would be nice, but there is no reason to build a new stadium for that reason alone.

Kauffman Stadium should be in downtown Kansas City, MO though. Kansas City's downtown is nice, but it could really use the additional activity of 25,000 fans downtown 80+ times a year to help create demand for hotels, restaurants and help justify transit improvements.

KC's new Sprint Center arena is in a very urban downtown location. Arenas should be in the city too.
I'm glad you think Denver "got it right", but I think it was more happenstance than anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete. View Post
I completely understand that many football stadiums get used for multiple purposes. It looks like about half of those you listed are located outside of their cities' downtowns, which is what I suggest. I just feel that baseball stadiums are more of a consistent "daily driver" for activity.

Now here's a potentially controversial opinion: I think football is meant to be played outdoors, not in a dome!
I do not understand why it makes a difference if the football stadium is downtown or somewhere else. I. . . just. . . don't. . . get it!
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Old 08-19-2014, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
11,559 posts, read 13,624,372 times
Reputation: 7756
I definitely would want them right downtown. Seeing as how the Cavs moved from a suburb almost 40 minutes away to right downtown, they couldn't have made a better move.

But one thing I would NOT do... clog up a beautiful downtown lakefront with a stadium.

O... yea... great idea. Let's put this right on our lake and use it 10 times a year. Great plan!
O we may get a concert or two in the summer. Maybe.
#WasteOfSpace

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