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Old 09-22-2014, 10:03 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 22,039,041 times
Reputation: 8970

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how
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a bus.

You act like a) you're the only one that has a complicated and time-consuming life, and b) that you had nothing to do with that situation.

I will repeat, if your business was THAT successful, you'd already be out of your tiny space, and into a larger one. No matter how complicated the logistics are.

It's always "one thing"....that one thing that is keeping you down (not you in particular, but those that always have an excuse as to why their brilliant business ideas don't pan out)

??? How many online sellers have to go through so many hoops (don't forget the expense which is crippling me) just to sell?

??? If I can't get listing photos for my items how can I make money selling them? Better to sit on them until I can list them properly, which is what I have been doing
.
Yes, I *could* sell them without photos...and realize only half the prices I get with photos. Is that what you propose I do?

Is it really too much to ask to have 400 sq ft of living space and a sane living environment without drunks and druggies?
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Old 09-23-2014, 01:52 PM
 
26,589 posts, read 52,257,058 times
Reputation: 20397
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Prop 13 is one of the main drivers of the ridiculous cost of housing in CA.
How so...

Homes in some Oakland neighborhoods were down 50% or more when the bubble burst...

The home next to me sold for 510k in 2007 and sold at a foreclosure sale for 80k and later for double that...

Plenty of homes change hands all the time.

Prop 13 is very simple... only a few short paragraphs and replaced volumes ot tax code.

Prop 13 applies evenly to every accessible property in the State... makes no matter if you bought in 1980 2007 or 2014.

Remember that California has just about every tax known and neighboring States don't... no income tax in Nevada or Washington and no Sales Tax in Oregon...

I was too young to have voted for Prop 13 when it passed... I am thankful each and everyday the voters made it law.

Important to point out it was the State taking over public education tax dollars via the Serrano Decision that played a huge part in catapulting Prop 13 into law... also corruption Assessor's Office and double digit tax increases played huge rolls too.
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Old 09-23-2014, 06:05 PM
 
2,553 posts, read 2,003,828 times
Reputation: 1348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
How so...

Homes in some Oakland neighborhoods were down 50% or more when the bubble burst...

The home next to me sold for 510k in 2007 and sold at a foreclosure sale for 80k and later for double that...

Plenty of homes change hands all the time.

Prop 13 is very simple... only a few short paragraphs and replaced volumes ot tax code.

Prop 13 applies evenly to every accessible property in the State... makes no matter if you bought in 1980 2007 or 2014.

Remember that California has just about every tax known and neighboring States don't... no income tax in Nevada or Washington and no Sales Tax in Oregon...

I was too young to have voted for Prop 13 when it passed... I am thankful each and everyday the voters made it law.

Important to point out it was the State taking over public education tax dollars via the Serrano Decision that played a huge part in catapulting Prop 13 into law... also corruption Assessor's Office and double digit tax increases played huge rolls too.
I think you'll find, however, that the effects of Prop 13 have been largely negative.

The state has had to get much of its funding from more volatile, less predictable sources--which is why "California has just about every tax known and neighboring States don't".

Meanwhile colleges and schools and libraries have been hurting for funding.

Cities have been disincentivized to support residential redevelopment, as it gets them less in taxes than does getting some commercial buildings built; at the same time it has disincentivized land owners to redevelop as there is little cost in not developing land until it is exactly the right time--a piece of land might be taxed at 1978 rates even though it is worth 2014 prices. This means there's less churn and development in a state where incomes and geography makes competition fierce, resulting in price rises far above the normal rate.

Maybe the system was broken. But, the theory of that system was sound. What we replaced it with has had many perversely negative unintended side-effects, and is worse for the state.
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Old 09-23-2014, 06:56 PM
 
26,589 posts, read 52,257,058 times
Reputation: 20397
I would never want to return to pre Prop 13 days...

Remember Prop 13 allows voters to approve higher assessments and my city/county has a long history of approving these... only 55% voter approval needed to build/repair schools.

Development is a sticky issue...

Project after project gets shot down around here... sometimes voters put measures on the ballot to buy property zoned for housing only to have the city keep it for open space.

One project already had infrastructure like sewers in place and required no zoning changes... people went door to door with petitions and ultimately got a ballot measures with bond funding to buy the 65 acres for permanent open space... not only taking it off the tax rolls but also making the city responsible for upkeep...

One of the best parts of Prop 13 is it takes the guess work out of assessment... real numbers on fair market transfers are used for property basis... not a guess from someone in the Assessor's office...

No more assessments based on fictitious paper profits.

Real Estate goes up and it goes down... it went down as much as 80% in parts of Oakland and other East Bay cities such as Richmond providing unbelievable opportunities...

The Legislature had many opportunities to act and failed... some were even smug saying Prop 13 would never pass... not enough property owning voters to pass it.

Simply indexing the Home Owner exemption for inflation would have stopped Prop 13... a $7500 exemption had real value when a modest home cost 15K... meant very little when homes cost many multiples more.
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Old 09-23-2014, 07:37 PM
 
12,289 posts, read 15,184,803 times
Reputation: 8100
Loosen zoning laws. Houston does not have zoning and has more affordable housing than most places with a healthy economy.
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Old 09-23-2014, 07:48 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 22,039,041 times
Reputation: 8970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
How so...

Homes in some Oakland neighborhoods were down 50% or more when the bubble burst...

The home next to me sold for 510k in 2007 and sold at a foreclosure sale for 80k and later for double that...

Plenty of homes change hands all the time.

Prop 13 is very simple... only a few short paragraphs and replaced volumes ot tax code.

Prop 13 applies evenly to every accessible property in the State... makes no matter if you bought in 1980 2007 or 2014.

Remember that California has just about every tax known and neighboring States don't... no income tax in Nevada or Washington and no Sales Tax in Oregon...

I was too young to have voted for Prop 13 when it passed... I am thankful each and everyday the voters made it law.

Important to point out it was the State taking over public education tax dollars via the Serrano Decision that played a huge part in catapulting Prop 13 into law... also corruption Assessor's Office and double digit tax increases played huge rolls too.

Prop 13 supporters said people shouldn't be taxed out of their homes...if that is true, why is it okay to tax renters out of their homes?
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Old 09-23-2014, 07:54 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 22,039,041 times
Reputation: 8970
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeconomist View Post
I think you'll find, however, that the effects of Prop 13 have been largely negative.

The state has had to get much of its funding from more volatile, less predictable sources--which is why "California has just about every tax known and neighboring States don't".

Meanwhile colleges and schools and libraries have been hurting for funding.

Cities have been disincentivized to support residential redevelopment, as it gets them less in taxes than does getting some commercial buildings built; at the same time it has disincentivized land owners to redevelop as there is little cost in not developing land until it is exactly the right time--a piece of land might be taxed at 1978 rates even though it is worth 2014 prices. This means there's less churn and development in a state where incomes and geography makes competition fierce, resulting in price rises far above the normal rate.

Maybe the system was broken. But, the theory of that system was sound. What we replaced it with has had many perversely negative unintended side-effects, and is worse for the state.

Prop 13 is a protectionist measure intended to protect homeowners; and it has succeeded wildly at that. That's what homeowners want; they are the majority, and they have the votes to make it stick.

Homeowners uber alles, and renters be damned. If they don't like it they can vote with their feet, which is precisely what most homeowners want.
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Old 09-23-2014, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,057 posts, read 16,066,811 times
Reputation: 12630
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Prop 13 is a protectionist measure intended to protect homeowners; and it has succeeded wildly at that. That's what homeowners want; they are the majority, and they have the votes to make it stick.

Homeowners uber alles, and renters be damned. If they don't like it they can vote with their feet, which is precisely what most homeowners want.
Renters benefit more from Prop 13 than homeowners. Ownership of rental properties turns over less frequently. The really big beneficiary is commercial. If you look at an older city like San Francisco, property tax revenue basically flipped. Commercial property taxes used to account for most of the revenue. Now its residential.
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Old 09-23-2014, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,165 posts, read 29,650,120 times
Reputation: 26646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
How so...

Homes in some Oakland neighborhoods were down 50% or more when the bubble burst...

The home next to me sold for 510k in 2007 and sold at a foreclosure sale for 80k and later for double that...

Plenty of homes change hands all the time.

Prop 13 is very simple... only a few short paragraphs and replaced volumes ot tax code.

Prop 13 applies evenly to every accessible property in the State... makes no matter if you bought in 1980 2007 or 2014.

Remember that California has just about every tax known and neighboring States don't... no income tax in Nevada or Washington and no Sales Tax in Oregon...

I was too young to have voted for Prop 13 when it passed... I am thankful each and everyday the voters made it law.

Important to point out it was the State taking over public education tax dollars via the Serrano Decision that played a huge part in catapulting Prop 13 into law... also corruption Assessor's Office and double digit tax increases played huge rolls too.
This sums it up pretty well. http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ype=blogs&_r=0

Prop 13 gave the power of local decisions to Sacramento. We still have tobs of taxes, and it is almost regressive as we rely on sales and income taxes to fund our coffers.

There is a healthy balance between keeping property taxes reasonable and funding our givernment, but we crossed the line.
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Old 09-23-2014, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,057 posts, read 16,066,811 times
Reputation: 12630
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
This sums it up pretty well. http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ype=blogs&_r=0

Prop 13 gave the power of local decisions to Sacramento. We still have tobs of taxes, and it is almost regressive as we rely on sales and income taxes to fund our coffers.

There is a healthy balance between keeping property taxes reasonable and funding our givernment, but we crossed the line.
Yes, it's mostly just squeezing the balloon around. But if you're a landlord like ultra, that doesn't mean it isn't personally advantageous to you. California has one of the least regressive state tax systems in the country though due to its income tax, so I don't know that I can really get too excited about that part of it.
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