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Old 09-23-2014, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,113 posts, read 102,899,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post



This is true. However, a new business in a better-located place would take their former market share.



Maybe things are quite different out west, but this wasn't my college experience at all.

I went to school in a college town in Western Massachusetts near where Nei lived from 1997-2001. Most students knew how to drive, but many seldom did. Undergraduates typically were relegated to "Yellow" lots for their first two years of school, which were often a 15-minute walk from dorms. As a result few people used their cars at all except for weekend trips, and quite a lot left their cars at their parents houses. I stayed in the dorms all the way through my senior year, and even then I'd say around half of people appeared not to drive with any regularity. Although most off-campus people did own cars, if the local situation were such that cars were as much of a hassle as on campus (e.g., if it was an urban area, not a town) I'd guess many would have made the same calculation.



This is a bit off topic, but my problem with capitalism isn't the market, it's the capitalists. Markets are actually a much more efficient manner of meeting many needs than government fiat. My ideal economic system would be market socialism, which would combine the efficiency of the existing capitalist system with a more equitable distribution of capital.

More on the issue at hand, once again there is no evidence in the modern era that parking shortages are harmful to neighborhoods as a whole. Yes, they can be a pain, but a parking shortage has never destroyed a walkable neighborhood, while steps to address parking shortages (such as knocking down storefronts and putting in parking garages) often do.
1. You obviously don't know much about business, especially small business. Moving is expensive. It could put the business under. It also takes up a lot of time that could be used to conduct the business.

2. When I was at Pitt, all those decades ago, having a car was discouraged. However, when I went out to Champaign IL in the early 70s, lots of students had cars. Champaign is not exactly the "wild west". I don't know what percentage of current students at CU have cars but I'd put it pretty high. My daughter had one when she went there, as did my other daughter at St. Olaf in MN. Virtually every grad student I have ever known has had a car, and the married ones usually have one for each partner.
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Old 09-23-2014, 02:16 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,993 posts, read 42,169,049 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
2. When I was at Pitt, all those decades ago, having a car was discouraged. However, when I went out to Champaign IL in the early 70s, lots of students had cars. Champaign is not exactly the "wild west". I don't know what percentage of current students at CU have cars but I'd put it pretty high. My daughter had one when she went there, as did my other daughter at St. Olaf in MN. Virtually every grad student I have ever known has had a car, and the married ones usually have one for each partner.
Odd. I've known many without.
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Old 09-23-2014, 02:17 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,993 posts, read 42,169,049 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
The very last people I am concerned about in life, other than Wall St. financiers, are developers. You and eschaton are two people.
I'm not particularly interested in the financial interest of developers. However, if your goal is to allow more people in a particular neighborhood or any urban spot, the only way is through development which is done by developers unless you have government building the development. The complaint "this interferes with developers" isn't for some love of devleopers but because the regulations interfere with possible infill growth.

Yes, we are only two people. However, if you mention something as a negative "streets full of car" to another poster (such as me) but I don't see it as a negative, my thought is "ok, so what?"

Quote:
Since I'm not affiliated with any of those colleges, I can't read any more than the abstract. But even last night, with my almost flat EEG, I noticed it was written by an urban planner and a civil engineer. Now I don't want to offend anyone here, but I don't get my injuries assessed by urban planners and/or engineers. In fact, being related to a whole slew of engineers, I would most certainly not go to them for health care advice. Even those with advanced degrees can't understand some of the simplest things about health care. I would imagine urban planners are in a similar category.
I haven't read the paper, but I doubt the authors are assessing any injuries. More likely, they are going through data already compiled and interpeted by health professionals and just running statistics against road type for it.

Quote:
As to the Huh? comment, it has been said that city requirements for off street parking are overblown and not research based. Yet, then eschaton said there are a lot of studies done by cities and non-profits which could give an idea of how many parking spaces are needed!
Unsure, but eschaton probably referred to the fact cities sometimes have blanket near-citywide parking rules regardless of neighborhood even if some cities do more careful studies.
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Old 09-23-2014, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,113 posts, read 102,899,540 times
Reputation: 33170
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
All? In the middle of a dense urban area where many don't drive there's not much space? In a rowhouse neighborhood where off street parking never existed? These threads become an all or nothing where all nuance is lost. Almost no one answered the OP the more sensible "it depends".
After seeing what happened to my daughter's car, yes. All. As in all new developments and all new conversions. They live in a two apt. building that was converted from a single family house built in 1889. Now there are five people living in that house, each with a car. There is room outside for maybe two to be parked in front of the house. All the other houses on the street are in the same situation. There are too many cars for them all to be parked on the street. And every street in the neighborhood is like that.

The thread title does refer to new construction.
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Old 09-23-2014, 02:24 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,993 posts, read 42,169,049 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
After seeing what happened to my daughter's car, yes. All. As in all new developments and all new conversions. They live in a two apt. building that was converted from a single family house built in 1889. Now there are five people living in that house, each with a car. There is room outside for maybe two to be parked in front of the house. All the other houses on the street are in the same situation. There are too many cars for them all to be parked on the street. And every street in the neighborhood is like that.
Ok, what about a neighborhood where every adult doesn't have a car? In any case, I'm rather certain I've visited more car-dense neighborhoods and the locals managed. Should convenient parking be expected everywhere? That seems a bit nuts to me. Surely someone who really wanted convenient parking shouldn't choose to live somewhere like here rather expect enough off street parking to built for his/her wants:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Somer...119.73,,0,-4.9

or worse, something like this:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Brook...21.54,,0,-3.56

That rule would make nearly impossible to make new rowhouse neighborhoods.

Some center city areas actually have residential parking maximums (Malloric mentioned an example as I have numerous times). Obviously, the city thinks easy parking is not a worthwhile goal.

Last edited by nei; 09-23-2014 at 02:42 PM..
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Old 09-23-2014, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Voorhees, NJ
59 posts, read 60,905 times
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It depends on the situation.

I lived in a small historical community called Fell's Point in Baltimore, MD. Because of the desirable nightlife and historical scene, tons of new construction apartment/condo buildings popped up.

Fortunately, they had parking spaces for residents with cars. If they didn't, the whole neighborhood would be depleted of parking spaces. I lived in a row house, and I would probably have to park 10 blocks away if some of these buildings didn't have lots. Parking space is limited as it is.

Just my two cents.
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Old 09-23-2014, 02:30 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,993 posts, read 42,169,049 times
Reputation: 14811
Ok, that makes some sense, I can understand how that can be frustrating. But all buildings having off street parking in a dense neighborhood is rather impractical. But there's a limit to how much parking you can practically fit in a crowded place.
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Old 09-23-2014, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,113 posts, read 102,899,540 times
Reputation: 33170
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Ok, what about a neighborhood where every adult doesn't have a car? In any case, I'm rather certain I've visited more car-dense neighborhoods and the locals managed. Should convenient parking be expected everywhere? That seems a bit nuts to me. Surely someone who really wanted convenient parking shouldn't choose to live somewhere like here rather expect enough off street parking to built for his/her wants:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Somer...119.73,,0,-4.9

or worse, something like this:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Brook...21.54,,0,-3.56

That rule would make nearly impossible to make new rowhouse neighborhoods.
I think each rowhouse should have a parking space off street. That is not too much to ask the developer to do. It could be a driveway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamespurdy2 View Post
It depends on the situation.

I lived in a small historical community called Fell's Point in Baltimore, MD. Because of the desirable nightlife and historical scene, tons of new construction apartment/condo buildings popped up.

Fortunately, they had parking spaces for residents with cars. If they didn't, the whole neighborhood would be depleted of parking spaces. I lived in a row house, and I would probably have to park 10 blocks away if some of these buildings didn't have lots. Parking space is limited as it is.

Just my two cents.
Exactly. That's essentially the problem in my daughter's neighborhood. There are all these old houses that have been converted to apts, and as I described above, there's not enough parking.
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Old 09-23-2014, 02:37 PM
 
1,999 posts, read 2,944,492 times
Reputation: 2154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
The very last people I am concerned about in life, other than Wall St. financiers, are developers. You and eschaton are two people.

It is not certain that severe injuries would be lessened. I was brain-dead last night and didn't read that study, and when I went to read it now, found I have to have some log-in. Since I'm not affiliated with any of those colleges, I can't read any more than the abstract. But even last night, with my almost flat EEG, I noticed it was written by an urban planner and a civil engineer. Now I don't want to offend anyone here, but I don't get my injuries assessed by urban planners and/or engineers. In fact, being related to a whole slew of engineers, I would most certainly not go to them for health care advice. Even those with advanced degrees can't understand some of the simplest things about health care. I would imagine urban planners are in a similar category.

.
This is absurd. Because the author is an urban planner, the study has no weight? That makes no sense.
You don't need to be a doctor to look at statistics and count up the number of fatalities on a given street.
You're really reaching for a way to not even consider that this study might have a point simply because you don't like the conclusion.
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Old 09-23-2014, 02:41 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,993 posts, read 42,169,049 times
Reputation: 14811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I think each rowhouse should have a parking space off street. That is not too much to ask the developer to do. It could be a driveway.
There could be if the rowhouse are set back enough, but it'd spoil the look of the block. I wouldn't want to live in a rowhouse with a driveway in front. Not saying I should have the right to prevent those from being built, but neither should those be mandatory. Also, driveway end up remove on street spaces so the gains are less than they appear.

What about the exisiting views I posted?
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