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Old 09-24-2014, 10:49 AM
 
1,998 posts, read 2,931,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Right. And you know what happens? Someone moves there thinking they don't need/want a car, and bingo! They get a job that requires commuting. Next thing you know, they're buying a car. Or they simply decide life w/o a car isn't what it's cracked up to be. What are you going to do? Kick people out if they buy a car?
No of course they shouldn't be kicked out. If their lifestyle changes and they need a car, they can move to somewhere else that better fits their new needs. That's not being kicked out - that's their own choice. Or they can rent a spot elsewhere in the neighborhood... or they can do street parking in the neighborhood (that's why the merits/demerits of street parking are quite relevant to this thread). Many different options.

I myself live in a neighborhood where the amount of people living on any given street greatly exceeds the number of parking spots on the street. The result isn't disaster and mayhem. Street parking works fine for me. Usually I park on my block, but sometimes there is no room and I have to park a block or two away. I don't mind this arrangement at all. For people who would mind that, they can either live here without a car or live in a different neighborhood with more parking.
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Old 09-24-2014, 10:49 AM
 
33,046 posts, read 22,039,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Right. And you know what happens? Someone moves there thinking they don't need/want a car, and bingo! They get a job that requires commuting. Next thing you know, they're buying a car. Or they simply decide life w/o a car isn't what it's cracked up to be. What are you going to do? Kick people out if they buy a car?

Charge a market-clearing price if they want to park their car in the neighborhood.
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Old 09-24-2014, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Oak Park, IL
5,522 posts, read 12,283,883 times
Reputation: 3827
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
What about incumbent carless residents who say they need new apartments in order to maintain affordability?
People without cars are usually in the minority (in terms of percentage not race) and also lower income so they get ignored by the political process.

Last edited by oakparkdude; 09-24-2014 at 11:05 AM..
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Old 09-24-2014, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,504,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Oh, God, not morality again! Please leave morality out of it.

If an apartment building has enough street frontage to provide parking for say, six cars, yet has 100 apartments (say it's a 3-4 story building) and NO offstreet parking, that's a problem.
It depends on the location of that building. If it is in an urban area with transit options, then the need for parking spots greatly reduce. If the apartment building is in a suburban area that has little to no transit options, then parking is needed.
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Old 09-24-2014, 11:20 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,988 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33050
Quote:
Originally Posted by stateofnature View Post
No of course they shouldn't be kicked out. If their lifestyle changes and they need a car, they can move to somewhere else that better fits their new needs. That's not being kicked out - that's their own choice. Or they can rent a spot elsewhere in the neighborhood... or they can do street parking in the neighborhood (that's why the merits/demerits of street parking are quite relevant to this thread). Many different options.

I myself live in a neighborhood where the amount of people living on any given street greatly exceeds the number of parking spots on the street. The result isn't disaster and mayhem. Street parking works fine for me. Usually I park on my block, but sometimes there is no room and I have to park a block or two away. I don't mind this arrangement at all. For people who would mind that, they can either live here without a car or live in a different neighborhood with more parking.
What's the difference between kicking someone out and telling them to move? Street parking is not a good idea for residential buildings. I see nothing wrong with requiring developers and re-developers to provide at least one parking spot per unit.

I'd guess you're a young male. You're probably not worried about walking several blocks at night, perhaps when you get off work, or maybe when you've gone out for the evening. If no one was required to provide parking, where would these people move to?
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Old 09-24-2014, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Oak Park, IL
5,522 posts, read 12,283,883 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
What's the difference between kicking someone out and telling them to move? Street parking is not a good idea for residential buildings. I see nothing wrong with requiring developers and re-developers to provide at least one parking spot per unit.
Even in midtown Manhattan and River North Chicago? You are in favor of making housing even more expensive than it already is by inflating construction costs?
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Old 09-24-2014, 11:35 AM
 
1,998 posts, read 2,931,177 times
Reputation: 2150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
What's the difference between kicking someone out and telling them to move? Street parking is not a good idea for residential buildings. I see nothing wrong with requiring developers and re-developers to provide at least one parking spot per unit.

I'd guess you're a young male. You're probably not worried about walking several blocks at night, perhaps when you get off work, or maybe when you've gone out for the evening. If no one was required to provide parking, where would these people move to?
The difference is obvious. People are free to move or not move if they no longer like a neighborhood based on changes in their lifestyle. It's impossible to anticipate and cater to every possible change in someone's lifestyle that might require them to change their living situation. Sometimes a couple will move into a 1 bedroom apartment not expecting to have a family, but then lo and behold they start to have kids and need more space. Are they being "kicked out" if they decide their apartment no longer suits them and they need to move to a bigger place?

As for where would people move if there was no required parking, you think offstreet parking exists only because of minimum parking mandates? That's not true. As was already said earlier in this thread, in many places developers build OVER the minimums. That's not going away. The vast majority of neighborhoods in America have abundant amounts of driveways, garages and/or parking lots. Parking is only an issue in certain places, (certainly not a a majority of places) where it is not economic for a developer to build parking because the land could be put to more valuable uses. There is no right for a guaranteed parking spot in those areas, nor should there be, because people who want a guaranteed spot can move elsewhere.
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Old 09-24-2014, 11:35 AM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,856,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
What about incumbent carless residents who say they need new apartments in order to maintain affordability?
New Apartments are the least affordable at all. The cost of construction as well as any financing must be paid by higher rents. The buildings that can afford low rent are those already paid off and older. Also in my experience the cost of rent is driven by demand and not lack of supply. Areas with great transit and active night life than areas without.
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Old 09-24-2014, 11:36 AM
 
Location: bend oregon
929 posts, read 843,383 times
Reputation: 351
the chances are only half the people will have a car, if everyone had a car in the city then whats the point of the busses and trains?
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Old 09-24-2014, 11:43 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,983 posts, read 41,929,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oakparkdude View Post
Even in midtown Manhattan and River North Chicago? You are in favor of making housing even more expensive than it already is by inflating construction costs?
In Midtown Manhattan (actually much of Manhattan) the maximum residential parking per 1 space per 5 apartments. Upper West and East Sides are a bit higher, at 1 space per 3 apartments.
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