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Old 09-24-2014, 11:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drum bro View Post
the chances are only half the people will have a car, if everyone had a car in the city then whats the point of the busses and trains?

They have an role. They transport those too young to drive, too old, the handicapped, and the poor. They can alleviate congestion in certain areas but that is about it.
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Old 09-24-2014, 11:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oakparkdude View Post
Even in midtown Manhattan and River North Chicago? You are in favor of making housing even more expensive than it already is by inflating construction costs?
However not all of New York is Mahhatten or River North. In fact outside of certain affluent neighborhoods most residences in Chicago are houses and they are single family with garages. The other spots that can sometimes get bad parking are when you have blocks and blocks of apartment buildings(which can suck big time if you need the car for work, or kids). In fact lack of parking is what turns Lincoln park into an place where yuppies can move and pretend like they are living in an city. The blue collar workers who need their cars but could afford the rent get pushed out.
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Old 09-24-2014, 11:59 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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I tried to find the ordinances for Champaign and Urbana Illinois regarding residential parking, but I'm not coming up with anything and I really don't have ALL day to fiddle on CD. I can tell you all, that even 35-40 years ago when I lived there, that every place I ever rented, and every place that DH rented before we were together, had off-street parking, so my wild guess is that it's required there. There are a couple of "old town" areas in each city where that may not be the case. Even when DH lived within walking distance of the U of I campus and rented a large old house, that house had parking for at least two cars in a driveway that went all the way back to the alley. (The house was not subdivided.) He said they sometimes parked their cars in the yard as well. In looking for some information, I found that it is legal for two cars to be parked in the back yard in Urbana if you have some sort of parking place for them (gravel, etc). That's a brief summary. ALL the apartment buildings that I am familiar with (not counting subdivided older homes) had parking lots when I lived there. I don't know how many spaces were required for each unit.

Even so, the streets were always clogged with parked cars, especially around the university and in the older areas.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 09-24-2014 at 12:08 PM..
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Old 09-24-2014, 12:05 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
If an apartment building has enough street frontage to provide parking for say, six cars, yet has 100 apartments (say it's a 3-4 story building) and NO offstreet parking, that's a problem.
I've known a number of people who live in similar buildings, male and female, I don't remember them mentioning any problems. If they don't have any problems with it, who others to judge?

However, would building those in my neighborhood cause problems? Yes, especially if it's more than one. I've said that already. But not everywhere is the same. A similar building was just approved in Ithaca, in the heavily student neighborhood of Collegetown:

Cornell Daily Sun

Why making sure parking is provided is an important necessity for that neighborhood, especially at the expense of less housing is beyond me. Those who really care about parking, can either rent a spot or probably live in another building or even neighborhood section. The site didn't have enough space for lots of parking, and underground parking is costly to sell at market rents. Parking restrictions would mean less would be able to live in the are they choose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Right. And you know what happens? Someone moves there thinking they don't need/want a car, and bingo! They get a job that requires commuting. Next thing you know, they're buying a car. Or they simply decide life w/o a car isn't what it's cracked up to be. What are you going to do? Kick people out if they buy a car?
As urbanlife78 said, they could rent a space nearby. In any area that dense, parking should be decoupled from rent anyway, Malloric provided more detail in other posts. Or they could deal with the pain of street parking further away and maybe life w/ a car isn't what it's cracked up to be, either. They chose a place they would have inconvenient parking, I wouldn't be all that sympathetic. No one's kicking them out, but they deal with the consequences of their bad choices. You can also live without a car in some places that appear easy but aren't and learn the hard way. Taking this logic to the extreme, I could go the other way and say places in un-walkable areas shouldn't be built either.
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Old 09-24-2014, 12:06 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
However not all of New York is Mahhatten or River North. In fact outside of certain affluent neighborhoods most residences in Chicago are houses and they are single family with garages. The other spots that can sometimes get bad parking are when you have blocks and blocks of apartment buildings(which can suck big time if you need the car for work, or kids). In fact lack of parking is what turns Lincoln park into an place where yuppies can move and pretend like they are living in an city. The blue collar workers who need their cars but could afford the rent get pushed out.
There are, however, blocks of apartment little off-street parking far from Manhattan in New York. I know of a few that grew up (all or part) of their childhood in one. Large swaths of Brooklyn and some of Queens are rowhouse or really double height row houses. Generally, one can rely on street parking in these, but expecting to park on your block at all times is unrealistic. Most don't drive to work in those neighborhoods, including many blue collar workers. However, a friend lived in one of those neighborhoods and did drive to work. She thought the parking situation was good, it took her no more than five minutes, often less, to find street parking coming home, which doesn't add that much to her commute. I don't think she used her car too much for non-commute purposes, but I could be wrong.

In any case, those areas of NYC still aren't like Manhattan, and obviously little of the country is. But the point was there are places where parking rules don't make sense.
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Old 09-24-2014, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Oak Park, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
However not all of New York is Mahhatten or River North. In fact outside of certain affluent neighborhoods most residences in Chicago are houses and they are single family with garages. The other spots that can sometimes get bad parking are when you have blocks and blocks of apartment buildings(which can suck big time if you need the car for work, or kids). In fact lack of parking is what turns Lincoln park into an place where yuppies can move and pretend like they are living in an city. The blue collar workers who need their cars but could afford the rent get pushed out.
If I'm correct, Katiana is recommending that all apartments everywhere be required to provide one parking space per unit. I didn't really see that she thought there could be exceptions to this mandate. That's why I was trying to get some clarification.

And regarding Lincoln Park, the lack the parking is due to the increased desirability of the neighborhood, not really due to new construction. What very little new construction has been built in Lincoln Park almost always comes with off-street parking. The "problem" is all the older construction without parking. Should we mandate that even older units should be retrofitted with off-street parking? Alternatively, the city could try to make Lincoln Park undesirable in order to decrease population density. I'm not sure either of those are viable options.
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Old 09-24-2014, 12:16 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
What's the difference between kicking someone out and telling them to move? Street parking is not a good idea for residential buildings. I see nothing wrong with requiring developers and re-developers to provide at least one parking spot per unit.
There are plenty of city neighborhoods where most drivers rely on on-street parking and very little off-street parking. Some are very nice neighborhoods, at least IMO. Not everyone has a problem with them, and yes plenty of women live in them. One parking spot per unit is high in city neighborhoods where many don't own cars.

I would also rather live in a row house neighborhood without off stree parking if off street parking means the front is nothing but a concrete driveway or the back was paved over instead of a small yard. I lived in a townhouse with the front turned into parking. It made a large block of pavement together together with the adjacent street, that would heat up fast in the sun due its southerly exposure. The front parking also meant no greenery or tress in front. I wished the off street parking wasn't there.

Quote:
I'd guess you're a young male. You're probably not worried about walking several blocks at night, perhaps when you get off work, or maybe when you've gone out for the evening. If no one was required to provide parking, where would these people move to?
First, any woman taking transit would probably be walking several blocks. And yes, I've known a number of young women who relied on street parking or didn't have a car at all.

I'm not suggestions that a no parking neighborhood is a good idea everywhere, just in certain places. Those people could live elsewhere. I've seen posters ask about the parking situation in a neighborhood on local forums. Someone who really cares about parking on their block shouldn't move to a neighborhood like that, while someone who like to walk and take transit everywhere might want to.

As I said, Manhattan not only doesn't require parking to built, it restricts it. Anyone who wants to park either:

1) Waste lots time with musical chair street parking. Best way to find a space is someone pulling out!
2) Fork $$ for an off street space

Most who want to drive would live elsewhere in the city, as would be sensible. Even Boston has a few neighborhoods that a driver might consider avoiding, and then some sections of neighborhoods.

Last edited by nei; 09-24-2014 at 12:26 PM..
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Old 09-24-2014, 12:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oakparkdude View Post
If I'm correct, Katiana is recommending that all apartments everywhere be required to provide one parking space per unit. I didn't really see that she thought there could be exceptions to this mandate. That's why I was trying to get some clarification.

And regarding Lincoln Park, the lack the parking is due to the increased desirability of the neighborhood, not really due to new construction. What very little new construction has been built in Lincoln Park almost always comes with off-street parking. The "problem" is all the older construction without parking. Should we mandate that even older units should be retrofitted with off-street parking? Alternatively, the city could try to make Lincoln Park undesirable in order to decrease population density. I'm not sure either of those are viable options.
While new construction does come with off the street parking, Chicago never set the amount of parking needed to be equal to the number of units or people that could be living in the units and the old construction is the problem. It isn't really just the increased desirability of the neighborhood but also the fact that people who need their cars for work avoid the place making it an party zone or an after college zone and not really representative of the city or even the city at that income level.
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Old 09-24-2014, 12:23 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,989,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oakparkdude View Post
If I'm correct, Katiana is recommending that all apartments everywhere be required to provide one parking space per unit. I didn't really see that she thought there could be exceptions to this mandate. That's why I was trying to get some clarification.
That's what I read, too. This sounds like a really bad fit for certain places, especially for the densest neighborhoods. The average required for New York City is 43 spaces per 100 apartments, btw, with large variations by borough.

http://furmancenter.org/files/public...1_12_final.pdf

Not a particularly polemical article trying to push one side or the other.

Quote:
And regarding Lincoln Park, the lack the parking is due to the increased desirability of the neighborhood, not really due to new construction. What very little new construction has been built in Lincoln Park almost always comes with off-street parking. The "problem" is all the older construction without parking. Should we mandate that even older units should be retrofitted with off-street parking? Alternatively, the city could try to make Lincoln Park undesirable in order to decrease population density. I'm not sure either of those are viable options.
Lincoln Park is actually less, but it's mostly due to smaller family size and more childless adults:

SW Ontario Urbanist: More 1950 to 2010 comparisons
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Old 09-24-2014, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Oak Park, IL
5,522 posts, read 12,290,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
While new construction does come with off the street parking, Chicago never set the amount of parking needed to be equal to the number of units or people that could be living in the units and the old construction is the problem. It isn't really just the increased desirability of the neighborhood but also the fact that people who need their cars for work avoid the place making it an party zone or an after college zone and not really representative of the city or even the city at that income level.
Why is that a problem that needs to be solved by mandating parking minimums? There are plenty of other Chicago neighborhoods where parking is plentiful. How are we going to retrofit a 1920s era building with off street parking equal to the number of units? Wouldn't any attempt to do so not only decrease the number of units but also increase the price of housing? How would that benefit blue collar workers?
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