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Old 10-10-2014, 04:21 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 22,043,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
There's a French poster from Paris who complains about that. Says it's technically illegal, but tolerated.

I've gained the impression that sidewalk parking is common on narrow, crowded European streets.
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Old 10-11-2014, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,061 posts, read 16,070,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
As I said, I'm aware of that. That doesn't imply it has created a major problem there. I've done that a number of times before. Well, street parking. Not going to pay for a garage. Mostly, I just avoid driving there. In any case, I posted for the photo mainly so I could a photo I took and it reminded it me of that post of Katiana's as it was an even more extreme situation.
Congestion is too much of a problem for parking to be a serious problem in Manhattan.

The bigger problem is more like neighborhoods that aren't so congested that driving isn't really possible for most people and where there isn't expensive offstreet parking widly available. Say, Park Slopes where the average person spends 30 minutes looking for parking, cars are routinely illegally parked creating a hazard, and a deeded parking space goes for $80,000 and $240 per month in "maintenance fees." You can buy a deeded parking space here for $80,000 and $240/mo and they'll even include a free condo.

I mean, it's great that there's people that can afford to spend $80,000 and another $2,880 per year to park a car, but that's not feasible for 99% of the population. It's a stupid model to follow when looking at what zoning should look like on a large scale. I'm not saying you don't have certain neighborhoods. Seattle or San Francisco both have areas that are anti-car where zoning is designed to artificially inflate the cost of driving, but they aren't most of the city. I mean, honestly, who wants to use someplace where half the traffic is just people driving around in circles looking for parking rather than going anywhere doing anything productive? Bad model. Doesn't mean there aren't trendy yurbies that don't want to live someplace that inconvenient anymore than there aren't burbies that will live in someplace like Rancho Murieta (golf course exurb 30 minutes outside of Sacramento with nothing around there). Different strokes for different folks. Modeling zoning after Park Slopes would just be similarly retarded to requiring that housing be 15 miles from any employment. Doesn't mean you don't allow either both are terrible "models" for what zoning should look like in general.

Last edited by Malloric; 10-11-2014 at 12:19 PM..
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Old 10-11-2014, 03:04 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,988 posts, read 102,554,590 times
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^^While I can't stand the use of the word "retarded" as in the above, I agree with the essence of the post. NYC is not a model for all US cities.
********************

Lest many of you forget, part of the reason for the need for OFF-street parking is to keep the traffic flowing, and not clogging the streets with people driving around looking for parking, parking too close to intersections, etc.
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Old 10-11-2014, 04:31 PM
 
1,998 posts, read 2,931,684 times
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I love the fact that my neighborhood has lots of on-street parking which slows the flow of traffic and makes it a much nicer place to be a pedestrian. If I wanted a less walkable neighborhood with less on-street parking and faster traffic, I'd move to a place like that rather than demand the government change the laws in my neighborhood to fit my subjective preferences.
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Old 10-11-2014, 10:56 PM
 
1,128 posts, read 1,520,136 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Congestion is too much of a problem for parking to be a serious problem in Manhattan.
Agreed. Congestion is why people don't drive into/around NYC, not parking availability.

I'd say NYC is a unique case for the US in a lot of senses, but most fundamentally, transit is basically always faster and more convenient than driving. Hence there's very little reason to need to give further incentives to people to not drive. Even people who own cars basically only use them when they're leaving the transit network and need them, which is not an issue.

NYC also has fortunate geology that enables there to be a ton of below-grade garages that only consume about an 8ft wide ramp worth of useful real estate. This has basically no impact compared with the usual surface lot, parking deck, etc.
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Old 10-11-2014, 11:59 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,988 posts, read 102,554,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stateofnature View Post
I love the fact that my neighborhood has lots of on-street parking which slows the flow of traffic and makes it a much nicer place to be a pedestrian. If I wanted a less walkable neighborhood with less on-street parking and faster traffic, I'd move to a place like that rather than demand the government change the laws in my neighborhood to fit my subjective preferences.
That's the latest urbanist meme, but I don't think it's born out by research. You can certainly get hit walking out between two parked cars.
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Old 10-12-2014, 12:05 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,509,053 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
That's the latest urbanist meme, but I don't think it's born out by research. You can certainly get hit walking out between two parked cars.
This isn't a meme, it is something that is actually taught in an a Urban Planning degree.

Have parked cars creates a buffer between moving cars and the pedestrians on the sidewalk which creates a safer environment for the pedestrian.

What you are saying is something that one shouldn't do is try to cross a street mid block. It is much safer to do that at an intersection. Crossing mid block with our without parked cars can increase your chances of being hit.

I haven't known many people that say they feel comfortable walking on a sidewalk next to moving vehicles, especially when they get too close to the road.
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Old 10-12-2014, 12:22 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,985 posts, read 41,937,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Congestion is too much of a problem for parking to be a serious problem in Manhattan.

The bigger problem is more like neighborhoods that aren't so congested that driving isn't really possible for most people and where there isn't expensive offstreet parking widly available. Say, Park Slopes where the average person spends 30 minutes looking for parking, cars are routinely illegally parked creating a hazard, and a deeded parking space goes for $80,000 and $240 per month in "maintenance fees." You can buy a deeded parking space here for $80,000 and $240/mo and they'll even include a free condo.
Parking is usually more difficult than traffic issues outside of rush hour in Manhattan. Depends on where.

I'm not sure where you're getting the 30 minute number. That sounds rather too high, definitely nowhere near in the south half of the neighborhood. Most residents manage with a deeded parking space. Maybe it adds some hazard, but overall the neighborhood and similar neighborhoods don't have high accident rates, and driving fatality rate (including pedestrians) are lower. As I said before, convenient parking isn't that important to a place like Park Slope, squeezing in lots of parking is cumbersome.

Park Slope does have minimum parking requirements, though with exemptions they average out to something relatively low (0.4 spaces per unit).

Quote:
I'm not saying you don't have certain neighborhoods. Seattle or San Francisco both have areas that are anti-car where zoning is designed to artificially inflate the cost of driving, but they aren't most of the city. I mean, honestly, who wants to use someplace where half the traffic is just people driving around in circles looking for parking rather than going anywhere doing anything productive?
Of course, since it's less convenient to drive since most don't have off street parking, the traffic is decreased, which may make up for the traffic circling. The half number is again too high, those are Manhattan numbers, not Brooklyn ones.

Quote:
I agree with the essence of the post. NYC is not a model for all US cities.

Lest many of you forget, part of the reason for the need for OFF-street parking is to keep the traffic flowing, and not clogging the streets with people driving around looking for parking, parking too close to intersections, etc.
Calling something a need is rather subjective. I could also say it's a need that all housing should be walkable, say within a 10 minute to most commonly services or frequent transit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I agree with the essence of the post. NYC is not a model for all US cities.
It isn't, though I'm not often not trying to discuss most US cities, and sometimes not limited to US cities. I wonder where the assumption the discussions are about US cities in general comes from [not just you, many others].

Last edited by nei; 10-12-2014 at 02:56 AM..
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Old 10-12-2014, 08:42 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,988 posts, read 102,554,590 times
Reputation: 33053
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
It isn't, though I'm not often not trying to discuss most US cities, and sometimes not limited to US cities. I wonder where the assumption the discussions are about US cities in general comes from [not just you, many others].
Maybe because you often use NYC in discussions about US cities in general. On this topic, in particular, NYC is such an outlier, it doesn't really deserve mention.
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Old 10-12-2014, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
12,304 posts, read 10,758,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
As I said, I'm aware of that. That doesn't imply it has created a major problem there. I've done that a number of times before. Well, street parking. Not going to pay for a garage. Mostly, I just avoid driving there. In any case, I posted for the photo mainly so I could a photo I took and it reminded it me of that post of Katiana's as it was an even more extreme situation.
Plenty of people pay to park in NYC. I my family has every time we've been there.

NYC also doesn't really compare to anywhere else in the country. No other city has 10+ million residents. Heck, there are plenty of states that don't have that population.
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