U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 10-15-2014, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,554,726 times
Reputation: 7830

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
^^PLEASE explain how less parking translates to more things to walk to. Do hipster bars spring up out of the ground or something when parking is made more difficult?
They are all over Portland with no parking lots. Hipsters like to walk or ride things called "bikes" instead of driving their cars to the bar where they are planning to get drunk. Why should they drunk drive?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-15-2014, 08:34 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,017 posts, read 102,674,652 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
They are all over Portland with no parking lots. Hipsters like to walk or ride things called "bikes" instead of driving their cars to the bar where they are planning to get drunk. Why should they drunk drive?
Why should they ride bikes drunk? In Colorado, "BUI"is illegal. Drunk cycling: Is Denver's new bike DUI policy harsher than rules in other states? | Westword

Not to mention, you missed the point. Less parking does not equal more bars. Usually the number of bars are regulated. Well, maybe not in Oregon.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-15-2014, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,554,726 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Why should they ride bikes drunk? In Colorado, "BUI"is illegal. Drunk cycling: Is Denver's new bike DUI policy harsher than rules in other states? | Westword

Not to mention, you missed the point. Less parking does not equal more bars. Usually the number of bars are regulated. Well, maybe not in Oregon.
It is easier to walk a bike than it is to walk a car. The number of bars are not regulated in Oregon, that would be a silly thing to do.

I know I have walked my bike home before leaving a bar because I was too drunk to ride.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-16-2014, 12:02 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,074 posts, read 16,105,531 times
Reputation: 12647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Why should they ride bikes drunk? In Colorado, "BUI"is illegal. Drunk cycling: Is Denver's new bike DUI policy harsher than rules in other states? | Westword

Not to mention, you missed the point. Less parking does not equal more bars. Usually the number of bars are regulated. Well, maybe not in Oregon.
Also statistically more dangerous to walk drunk than drive drunk. Less selfish, perhaps, but also more dangerous.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-16-2014, 01:56 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,554,726 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Also statistically more dangerous to walk drunk than drive drunk. Less selfish, perhaps, but also more dangerous.
Now we are arguing that it is more dangerous to walk drunk than to drive drunk? Seriously?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-16-2014, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,074 posts, read 16,105,531 times
Reputation: 12647
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Now we are arguing that it is more dangerous to walk drunk than to drive drunk? Seriously?
No. You might be arguing with facts. Waste of time, in my opinion.

Freakonomics The Perils of Drunk Walking: A New Marketplace Podcast
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-16-2014, 07:51 AM
 
1,998 posts, read 2,936,249 times
Reputation: 2150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
^^PLEASE explain how less parking translates to more things to walk to. Do hipster bars spring up out of the ground or something when parking is made more difficult?
Look at every single neighborhood in the country that has lots of residents living there without cars because it is convenient to do so. I'm talking about Manhattan, Dupont Circle and Adams Morgan in Washington DC, most of San Francisco, Beacon Hill in Boston, to name a few. These are the neighborhoods with the lowest car ownership rates in the country, but they are also affluent areas, so you can't say it's because people there can't afford cars.
What they all have in common is that the vast majority of residences and businesses lack off-street parking and the streets are full of cars parked on the curbs. I know correlation is not causation, but I really find it hard to believe that this just a coincidence that these are also the places with the most "stuff" to walk to and where a car is most unnecessary to get around. The lack of off-street parking means denser, more compact neighborhoods that can be walked around more easily compared to those where more space is devoted to parking, which makes the neighborhood less dense. It also means more people walk to their destinations rather than drive because it's usually easier to walk than search for a street parking spot or pay for parking in a commercial garage. This creates a feedback loop where people walking begets other people walking because people are more likely to feel comfortable as pedestrians if they see other people doing it. That means a developer has confidence that he can put in a business (yes, like "hipster bars" which I don't see as a pejorative like others do) that is built for easy access to pedestrians and doesn't have a parking lot because he knows that there will be pedestrians to come to his business. The vast majority of patrons of the restaurants and stores in my neighborhood in Washington DC are people who walked there, and not drove there. If you forced the businesses to put in parking that would change and alter the character of the neighborhood, in my opinion, for the worse.

Other people might have the opposite opinion and prefer places where you can always park for free in front of your destination. Ok, fine, then go to those neighborhoods and stay out of mine. Don't ruin the relatively few areas in this country where walking is more convenient than driving by forcing parking minimums on them.

Last edited by stateofnature; 10-16-2014 at 08:29 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-16-2014, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,074 posts, read 16,105,531 times
Reputation: 12647
Quote:
Originally Posted by stateofnature View Post
.

Other people might have the opposite opinion and prefer places where you can always park for free in front of your destination. Ok, fine, then go to those neighborhoods and stay out of mine. Don't ruin the relatively few areas in this country where walking is more convenient than driving by forcing parking minimums on them.
Katiana has no effect on the parking minimums where you live.

The people who are going to "ruin" your neighborhood live where you do. Perhaps they're putting up condos bringing more cars into the neighborhood and the existing residence feel there needs to be minimum parking to mitigate that so their neighborhood isn't ruined.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-16-2014, 08:41 AM
 
1,998 posts, read 2,936,249 times
Reputation: 2150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Katiana has no effect on the parking minimums where you live.
Oh really? Wow, you are really teaching me something I didn't already know.

I may not be the smartest person in the world, but do I really come across as SO stupid that you wouldn't give me the benefit of the doubt and think that I don't LITERALLY mean Katiana lobbying for changing the laws in my neighborhood, and instead I am just talking about what would happen in a world where every neighborhood had parking minimums, as is the topic being discussed?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-16-2014, 08:49 AM
 
1,998 posts, read 2,936,249 times
Reputation: 2150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post

The people who are going to "ruin" your neighborhood live where you do. Perhaps they're putting up condos bringing more cars into the neighborhood and the existing residence feel there needs to be minimum parking to mitigate that so their neighborhood isn't ruined.
Yep you're right, there are always busybodies who want to call on the government to impose regulations such as parking minimums that force their subjective preferences onto others. So far they have been unsuccessful at that where I live.
I have my subjective preferences too, obviously, I just don't call on the government to force them onto people.

By the way, I also don't like the parking maximums that you were talking about in Seattle.

Last edited by stateofnature; 10-16-2014 at 08:58 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top