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Old 10-01-2014, 01:39 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
17,436 posts, read 21,278,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eccotecc View Post

When I lived in the city, I lived 5 miles from work and it took me 1 1/2 hours by bus. I had to take a bus because there wasn't anywhere to park. That was 1 1/2 hours each way, or 3 hours a day.
I take the bus to work and it takes 1/2 hour each way, and how I wish, many times, the bus ride was longer, as the minute I get into my seat, out comes a book, a magazine and not one minute of my bus ride time is squandered!

Anyone that considers the precious time riding buses to be a waste of time must be devoid of imagination or has problems with dyslexia!
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Old 10-01-2014, 03:44 AM
 
1,462 posts, read 1,211,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eccotecc View Post
Time...How much time is lost living in a major urban city? If time is money, how much does it cost in lost time to live in a city?
Well what're ya gonna do?? Live in a small town and work at the local Quick Trip or hardware store for $8.50/hr? No thanks!!!!!
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Old 10-01-2014, 06:12 AM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,958,688 times
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When I lived and worked in Philly my longest commute was a 15 minute bike ride/20 minute transit trip (two trains)/45 min walk.

When I lived in Philly and worked in the suburbs my commute was an hour on transit, 30 minutes if I took my bike on the bus, and just under 20 minutes if I drove there. Some of my co-workers who also lived in the suburbs had driving commutes of up to an hour to get there.

It's quite simple though, if you don't like a long commute in a big city you can either move closer to work, or at the very least move closer to a transit line that gets you a one seat ride to your job. When I was working in Lower Manhattan I hated my 90 minute commute so I started looking for apartments in Brooklyn and Hoboken. I didn't like what I saw so instead I found a new job closer to where I was already living.
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Old 10-01-2014, 06:48 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,030 posts, read 102,707,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
I take the bus to work and it takes 1/2 hour each way, and how I wish, many times, the bus ride was longer, as the minute I get into my seat, out comes a book, a magazine and not one minute of my bus ride time is squandered!

Anyone that considers the precious time riding buses to be a waste of time must be devoid of imagination or has problems with dyslexia!
OR, is raising a family had has too much too do and not enough time to do it! Or, would rather spend the leisure time they have doing something other than riding a bus for 1/2 hour twice a day.
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Old 10-01-2014, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Laurentia
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I've noticed this phenomenon myself. Traffic is always more congested in the city than in the country, and there is a relative dearth of high-speed roadways. Mass transit can offset this, but buses, subways, and trains are almost always slower than a countryside drive; if you don't believe that try finding a core city transit system that averages 50 mph or faster. Mass transit also doesn't take you directly to your destination; being in a city means your walk is conveniently short, but that time is usually significant.

Transportation is faster in the country than the city, for both cars and trains, and there is almost always less traffic in the country than the city regardless of the economy because of the lower population density. Everything is closer in the city and further away in the country, but that advantage for the city is offset by the painfully slow speed of city transportation. How much it's offset varies by city and by route, but it is a major offset that urban boosters either are hiding from us or just don't notice.

On a rural road I easily average 50 mph, whereas on city streets it's never more than 30 mph. During rush hour(s), which is when most people commute, 20 mph is about the best I can hope for in a city whereas I enjoy the same 50+ mph in the country because there is no rush hour. Public transit isn't significantly faster. In this situation, in 30 minutes of driving I've gotten 25 miles in the countryside compared to at most 10 miles in the city. In most spots in the eastern American countryside, there are a lot of destinations within 25 miles, with the same necessities available as are in the typical city, and keep in mind this calculation is charitable to the city. Rush hour(s) on the freeway is somewhat different. On a rural freeway one can easily average 80 mph at any time, whereas even in the best of times 65 mph is the best a typical urban freeway can offer. During rush hour traffic when most people use these freeways I average 40 mph if I'm lucky, usually closer to 25 mph, with the traffic only letting up as I leave the core city. In the city after 30 minutes I'll be 12 miles away, compared to 40 miles in the country. If you make a list of the kind of destinations urbanites patronize on a regular basis you'll find most of them in a 12 mile radius from the city core, and if you throw a dart on an eastern U.S. map and hit a rural area you'll find most of them in a 40 mile radius. The kind of destinations rural people infamously drive 100+ miles to (such as art museums) are only patronized occasionally by people in any lifestyle.

So based on my (admittedly not omniscient ) experiences in urban and rural transportation, I would say the average city and the average surrounding country are roughly evenly matched when it comes to how long to get to destinations. Which has the edge depends on your preferred mode of transport, the local infrastructure, and the local geography, but unless you are in remote countryside (as in 100 miles from the nearest city) there won't be much of a difference in your travel time to various destinations.

As an aside, I've noticed that in the final 50 or so miles into a city it's common for the first 40-45 miles to take as long as the final 5-10 miles, so if you already have a long suburban commute moving 10-20 miles further along the freeway to the countryside won't add much to your commute time. Conversely, if you move much further into the city your commute won't be much shorter because slowness sucks up the distance advantage; that changes as you close in to within a mile or two of your city job of course. The bottom line is that people should think more in terms of travel time than distance when it comes to where to live, because in this context distance is relative throughout space; 5 city miles are equivalent to 10-15 country miles. The interaction of country free-flow and urban congestion can create wacky situations where 50 miles takes about as long as 20 miles.

For me personally, a 100 mile uncongested drive is just right to really stimulate and freshen my day, and with my driving stamina I notice little difference between 20 miles and 100 miles; indeed, I've been known to drive 100 miles on the freeway for lunch. Any destination within a 2 hour drive is one I always consider. It is for this reason that the prospect of living far away from a city doesn't bother me. I realize my situation is uncommon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HTY483 View Post
Well what're ya gonna do?? Live in a small town and work at the local Quick Trip or hardware store for $8.50/hr? No thanks!!!!!
Income statistics plainly show that incomes people earn in small towns are not much different from city cores; sure, city income is a bit higher but once you factor in cost of living the difference is small. There are plenty of $8.50/hour jobs in walkable cities too with a larger pool of applicants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
When I was working in Lower Manhattan I hated my 90 minute commute so I started looking for apartments in Brooklyn and Hoboken. I didn't like what I saw so instead I found a new job closer to where I was already living.
Good rules of thumb are commute times increase the closer one gets to a city, and bigger cities have longer commutes. New Yorkers have the longest commutes in the country (40 minutes if I recall correctly), whereas even in the remote countryside commutes are short (10 minutes or so), up to and including the Alaska Bush. The longest commutes tend to be 30-40 minutes in the cores of huge cities, outer suburbs, and exurbs.

Quote:
It's quite simple though, if you don't like a long commute in a big city you can either move closer to work, or at the very least move closer to a transit line that gets you a one seat ride to your job.
There are indeed many advantages to living close to a high(er)-speed transportation corridor. The same logic applied to automobiles is what spurs developers to build homes close to freeway exits, and increases demand for homes near train stations. Most cities being located close to rivers is testament to this too, since historically rivers were where the commercial traffic was.
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,324 posts, read 1,109,996 times
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Good point and for each person the answer is different.

I used to live in Dallas Fort Worth Texas area. to work in film I would have had to commute a minimum of 2 hours a day perhaps up to 4. I realized I did not want to do that. That was just work! Add in all the other stuff-no! Some people made fun of me I recall for having problems with 2 hour commutes!

Ironically we moved back to Austin and the developers are turning this city into a "Dallas" so driving is taking more time.

However I have to say that sometimes waiting can be an exercise in patience and forced creativity and I actually enjoy it. it is a skill to be learned. In lines I can go inward and plan, imagine, observe objects around me or people and get a hell of a lot of enjoyment out of it. I started teaching myself when I was a child. I do it automatically now. Other people knit, or journal read, sometimes I do the former or latter or draw.
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Old 10-01-2014, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
2,975 posts, read 4,085,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eccotecc View Post
Having lived in a large urban area and now living in a small rural community, I've noticed a major distinction in the amount of time that was lost in just waiting in lines and commuting. I think this is something people seldom think about, or figure the cost associated with the time that's lost.

For example, I live 3 miles from work and it takes 5 to 7 minutes to get there and have no trouble finding a place to park. When I lived in the city, I lived 5 miles from work and it took me 1 1/2 hours by bus. I had to take a bus because there wasn't anywhere to park. That was 1 1/2 hours each way, or 3 hours a day.

This is only a small example of what I'm referring to.

I challenge you to keep track of your time spent waiting in lines or traffic for a day.
How long do you spend on the road driving to different towns to shop for necessities? Unless you live in a town that has a Walmart and that's the only place you shop. I have a good friend who lives in a rural town with a Walmart, and he still drives 30-40 minutes to other towns to get stuff and meet up with people. The large hospital/medical center is over an hour away. But not every rural dweller's life style is the same. Nor is every city dweller's life style the same!

For me, I can get most things done on foot within a 10 minute walk. I can time things so I avoid the peak-hour longest check out lines. And my heart, leg, and core muscles benefit more from those 20 minutes round-trip than if I were sitting in a car driving. I'm not entirely sure how to translate these health and well benefits in to minutes or hours or dollars.

Sure it is around 2 hours commuting each day with busses and train transfers, which I am ok with, but many would not be (I *could* live somewhere that's 10-15 minutes each way on the bus which runs every 9 minutes during rush hour, but it would not be in my preferred neighbourhood). But part of this time is also being active and keeping up with current events, which I do value. If I had a 15 minute round-trip car commute, I'd still have to find time to do these things at home. Now if my schedule were so tight that I simply cannot make it on time to stuff if my car commute were any longer, well, then I really don't have time to do the things I value, and it's just not the kind of lifestyle I want to live. I'm not entirely sure how to translate this in to minutes or hours or dollars either.
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Old 10-01-2014, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Chicago
3,275 posts, read 4,775,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
That is one of the things that really impresses me with Chicago and Chicagoland is the number of little urban centers near the commuter rail making it easier to live out of the city, still get some urban walkability, easy access into downtown, without having to deal with high density neighborhoods.
Yes, if you choose your location right, it can be great. My house in the suburbs has a walk score of 85 and our house in the city had a score of 89. But, the places I frequent are closer now (the grocery store and a few restaurants I like). If our house was 2 blocks south of where it is the walk score would be higher than that of our house in the city.
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
2,975 posts, read 4,085,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eccotecc View Post
I totally agree with what you are saying and the driving aspect was taken into consideration before moving to a rural area.

As for gas and wear and tear on the car. I think you would agree that it's more efficient to drive at 55 mph for 15 minutes than to sit idling for 15 minutes while crawling through city traffic and stopped at traffic lights every block. Where I currently live, it takes less time to go to a major shopping area 3 miles away than it did driving to a grocery store in the city. Furthermore, who walks to do their shopping if it is cold, rainy, or snowing. Who in this day and age buys one can of soup at a time or a roll of toilet paper. Can't you just see it, "Oh I'm out of toilet paper, I better walk to the store and buy another roll." No, they go to Costco and buy the super jumbo pack of 50 at a time. Couldn't you just see some urban dweller lugging home the super jumbo pack of toilet paper. This urban dweller meets their neighbor and the neighbor invites the shopper to see what they invented. It's wheels to attach to the super jumbo pack of toilet paper so it can be towed behind their bike. Boy, what a great idea. I think you should show it to everyone at the next urban dweller block party.

Or, do a major shop once or twice a month and be done with it. To do that a person gets in their car or truck and get the job done quickly and efficiently.
In this day and age, I can take the bus or trolley to Target or any other super market and get a car2go and drive back with a pack (usually 24 rolls) of TP and other pantry/household items I needed. I have in the past taken one of the 12 roll packs on two busses with transfers and didn't get any dirty looks, as it fits fine under the seat. There are cabs too--a couple times a month won't break the bank. Then there are people who own cars but choose to leave them parked except for weekends, evenings, and shopping trips. Do you really think that just because someone doesn't use a car for their daily routine, they must never, every have access to a car, and they have no choice but to carry jumbo packs of 50 rolls of TP on a bike?
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:08 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,864,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hurricaneMan1992 View Post
Do you really think that just because someone doesn't use a car for their daily routine, they must never, every have access to a car, and they have no choice but to carry jumbo packs of 50 rolls of TP on a bike?
Outside of downtown Chicago and pockets of the north side this is often true. Car Share tend to only be in upscale areas.
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