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Old 10-16-2014, 07:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
It seems also that desire for walkable spaces has increased recently among younger individuals fresh out of college; though this has been debated on this forum, trends of younger individuals moving into previously neglected urban areas suggests so.
Entire argument dead in the water here. It has been debated because no studies have been linked to prove that there are "trends of younger individuals moving into previously neglected urban areas".

This is like starting an argument with:
"It seems the desire for cherry ice cream has increased recently, though this has been debated on the forums, trends of Bigfoot purchasing cherry ice cream suggest that I am right" Without proof that Bigfoot is purchasing cherry ice cream, this is simply a very ignorant argument. Please provide proof when you are starting the discussion with the assertion that others are wrong because the proof, which is not provided, supports your viewpoint.
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Old 10-16-2014, 10:37 AM
 
1,709 posts, read 1,685,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurtsman View Post
Entire argument dead in the water here. It has been debated because no studies have been linked to prove that there are "trends of younger individuals moving into previously neglected urban areas".

This is like starting an argument with:
"It seems the desire for cherry ice cream has increased recently, though this has been debated on the forums, trends of Bigfoot purchasing cherry ice cream suggest that I am right" Without proof that Bigfoot is purchasing cherry ice cream, this is simply a very ignorant argument. Please provide proof when you are starting the discussion with the assertion that others are wrong because the proof, which is not provided, supports your viewpoint.
Something has definitely changed. That can't be denied. Most inner cities are far more vibrant and wealthy than they were 20-30 years ago, at least in certain locations if not everywhere. Populations have increased, investment is vastly increasing. Urban areas are generally getting more attention than they used to. Do you agree or disagree?
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Old 10-16-2014, 11:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
First off, as I have said twice before, the universities aren't intentionally creating this trend, it is merely a byproduct of increased enrollment in colleges. The natural organization of university campuses is inadvertently creating the increased demand for walkable spaces.
You haven't actually established that any such "trend" exists nor that there is any "increased demand" by former students.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
Second, it might be conditioning them to dislike density, but perhaps it's also getting them used to it. But that's beside the point. My point is that college life is creating a preference for walkable environments, where the destinations are much closer together. Frankly, the conditions of college classes vs typical employment is irrelevant, but if you really want to get into that I will counter with the fact that students also like to walk to their amenities, such as bars, restaurants, and shops in the college town, as well as places like sports stadiums or rec centers on the campus itself.
You have not established the existence of the "trend" or "increased demand" - the postulate for your hypothesis. Moreover since "college life" has been around for quite some time which would suggest a flaw in your causation logic of more recent "trends" which haven't actually been established in any event.
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Old 10-16-2014, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
4,902 posts, read 7,692,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
You haven't actually established that any such "trend" exists nor that there is any "increased demand" by former students.


You have not established the existence of the "trend" or "increased demand" - the postulate for your hypothesis. Moreover since "college life" has been around for quite some time which would suggest a flaw in your causation logic of more recent "trends" which haven't actually been established in any event.
There is definitely a renewed interest in urban living. Whether it's being driven mostly by millennials, is still up for debate.
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Old 10-16-2014, 01:05 PM
 
1,709 posts, read 1,685,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
There is definitely a renewed interest in urban living. Whether it's being driven mostly by millennials, is still up for debate.
The question is not whether it's driven by millenials, the question is whether millenials are most affected. Which I will answer soon once I've gathered up my sources.
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Old 10-16-2014, 03:27 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,993 posts, read 42,256,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Now you're deliberately misinterpreting what I've said. Walking is not a fad; the focus on walkability is.
No, I can't read minds, that wasn't deliberate you didn't say the bolded, just walkability. In any case, I think there has always been an interest in walkability; maybe it has increased. An as I said, that might be a be US-specific thing, it may never have declined that much elsewhere. Though my posts and the above posts have completely left the college topic, perhaps we can go back?
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Old 10-16-2014, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,700 posts, read 8,535,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
You haven't actually established that any such "trend" exists nor that there is any "increased demand" by former students.


You have not established the existence of the "trend" or "increased demand" - the postulate for your hypothesis. Moreover since "college life" has been around for quite some time which would suggest a flaw in your causation logic of more recent "trends" which haven't actually been established in any event.
The reason no one tried to establish this fact first is that this is the urban planning forum and what you are referring to is a well established trend that most people here are already familiar with and accept. It's the biggest and most transformative modern trend in urbanism, so no one saw it as necesary to prove first. Heck, basically anyone living in most inner cities today is aware of this, whether they have a special interest in the subject or not, all though of course local exceptions may apply. So it seemed too obvious to address that phenomenon first since it was assumed everyone knew about and accepted it as occuring. Here are several of the thousands of articles that have been written on the subject of late, to satisfy some of your curiosity. If you'd like to look for primary literature I'm sure you can find it on a geography database, but I fully admit to being an armchair urbanist myself so I'm not personally very familiar with using them.

Why Generation Y is Causing the Great Migration of the 21st Century | PlaceMakers

Millennials Moving to Cities; Older Generations Staying Put | Planetizen: The Urban Planning, Design, and Development Network

Migration of Millennials to Urban Cores Is Displacing Residents - Pacific Standard: The Science of Society

A ‘nationwide gentrification effect’ is segregating us by education - The Washington Post

The Next Big Question Facing Cities: Will Millennials Stay? - CityLab

The Gentrification Puzzle - CityLab
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Old 10-17-2014, 02:00 PM
 
8,328 posts, read 14,616,974 times
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College communities are generally "walkable" by design for many students--those living in on-campus dormitories are generally within walking distance of most if not all of their day to day needs, like food (campus cafeteria and restaurants), shopping (university store and on-campus vendors), entertainment (universities generally feature speakers, student plays and music, art events, etc, as well as touring acts) and even employment (student jobs on campus and internships, fellowships, tutoring and student assisting.) Many college towns carry elements of walkability outside the campus, in part because most college students are young people whose resources may be limited and often don't own cars. But they are willing to live in close proximity, value access to amenities, and very often don't need extra space for families (Yes, some students are older, have families, and have cars, but they are far from universal needs.)

In my own experience, I went to a school in a small town of about 15,000 people. I didn't drive or even have a license, and seldom missed it. I lived on campus for 2 years and off campus for 2, accomplished most errands on foot, and being a student meant I could buy bus tickets for a nickel. Plenty of things were within walking distance--grocery stores, restaurants, video stores (this was back when there were video stores), books, music, clothes, movie theaters, and so on--plus, because the campus was located next to a large forest, nature was also within walking distance, with farms (primarily small dairies) within walking distance in the other direction. It gave me a life-long taste for walkable neighborhoods, and a conviction that walkable places aren't only found in big cities.
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,144 posts, read 103,022,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
The reason no one tried to establish this fact first is that this is the urban planning forum and what you are referring to is a well established trend that most people here are already familiar with and accept. It's the biggest and most transformative modern trend in urbanism, so no one saw it as necesary to prove first. Heck, basically anyone living in most inner cities today is aware of this, whether they have a special interest in the subject or not, all though of course local exceptions may apply. So it seemed too obvious to address that phenomenon first since it was assumed everyone knew about and accepted it as occuring. Here are several of the thousands of articles that have been written on the subject of late, to satisfy some of your curiosity. If you'd like to look for primary literature I'm sure you can find it on a geography database, but I fully admit to being an armchair urbanist myself so I'm not personally very familiar with using them.

Why Generation Y is Causing the Great Migration of the 21st Century | PlaceMakers

Millennials Moving to Cities; Older Generations Staying Put | Planetizen: The Urban Planning, Design, and Development Network

Migration of Millennials to Urban Cores Is Displacing Residents - Pacific Standard: The Science of Society

A ‘nationwide gentrification effect’ is segregating us by education - The Washington Post

The Next Big Question Facing Cities: Will Millennials Stay? - CityLab

The Gentrification Puzzle - CityLab
This can get you into big trouble.
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Old 10-17-2014, 09:16 PM
 
2,830 posts, read 3,371,979 times
Reputation: 3045
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
The reason no one tried to establish this fact first is that this is the urban planning forum and what you are referring to is a well established trend that most people here are already familiar with and accept. It's the biggest and most transformative modern trend in urbanism, so no one saw it as necesary to prove first. Heck, basically anyone living in most inner cities today is aware of this, whether they have a special interest in the subject or not, all though of course local exceptions may apply. So it seemed too obvious to address that phenomenon first since it was assumed everyone knew about and accepted it as occuring. Here are several of the thousands of articles that have been written on the subject of late, to satisfy some of your curiosity. If you'd like to look for primary literature I'm sure you can find it on a geography database, but I fully admit to being an armchair urbanist myself so I'm not personally very familiar with using them.

Why Generation Y is Causing the Great Migration of the 21st Century | PlaceMakers

Millennials Moving to Cities; Older Generations Staying Put | Planetizen: The Urban Planning, Design, and Development Network

Migration of Millennials to Urban Cores Is Displacing Residents - Pacific Standard: The Science of Society

A ‘nationwide gentrification effect’ is segregating us by education - The Washington Post

The Next Big Question Facing Cities: Will Millennials Stay? - CityLab

The Gentrification Puzzle - CityLab
Don't see it. By the way, statements from your cited references such as "at the recent New Partners for Smart Growth Conference in San Diego, Chris Nelson, Joe Molinaro and Shyam Kannan made it clear that a radical shift in preferences is on the horizon" sound a bit more like marketing hype than a conclusion supported by empirical evidence.


From another article: "Millennials are willing to pay 50 percent of their income on housing so they can live in urban settings. That drives up rents and pushes out others who can’t afford that,” Hansen said.
What kind of education did these "millenials" have? "pushing out others" is substitution not increase. To the extent there is any increase it comes in the form of condominiums (probably the worst form of property ownership there is) and apartments. Don't see such a trend lasting very long - nor any individual participants participating in it as a "career" choice.

...and how does the "urban planning forum" relate to "former university students"? If anything it seems to have a few wanna-be "urban planners" that thrive on being Cliff Clavin-types (only less likeable and more annoying).
Which of these studies shows an increased desire of former university students to live in an inner city?
Which of these studies shows an increase in former university students living in an inner city?
Which of these studies utilizes empirical evidence to support the hypothesis of an increase in demand or desire of former university students to live in an inner city?

That's not to say the preferences of a society won't change over time - I just don't see it from the articles you provide.
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