U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-16-2014, 08:29 AM
 
1,709 posts, read 1,674,215 times
Reputation: 1838

Advertisements

A lot of suburbs would have to be totally redone-torn down and rebuilt from scratch-to be anywhere close to a centrallized urban community. So I don't see most suburbs urbanizing anytime soon; the only ones that will are the ones that already had a head start (such as suburbs that started out as small towns).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-16-2014, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,514,457 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
A lot of suburbs would have to be totally redone-torn down and rebuilt from scratch-to be anywhere close to a centrallized urban community. So I don't see most suburbs urbanizing anytime soon; the only ones that will are the ones that already had a head start (such as suburbs that started out as small towns).
Not entirely true, Virginia Beach is building a downtown and hasn't really needed to tear anything down, much of the area that is marked for their new downtown was once vacant land and is surrounded by aging strip malls that can be torn down and worked into an urban plan for the city.

Typically finding an old mall or dying strip malls is more than enough land to build an urban district in the suburbs. It is also easier to begin to connect new urban districts because a number of these dead malls and dying strip malls tend to be on major arterial roads that makes connecting them by rail transit typically easy to do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2014, 11:47 AM
 
1,709 posts, read 1,674,215 times
Reputation: 1838
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Not entirely true, Virginia Beach is building a downtown and hasn't really needed to tear anything down, much of the area that is marked for their new downtown was once vacant land and is surrounded by aging strip malls that can be torn down and worked into an urban plan for the city.

Typically finding an old mall or dying strip malls is more than enough land to build an urban district in the suburbs. It is also easier to begin to connect new urban districts because a number of these dead malls and dying strip malls tend to be on major arterial roads that makes connecting them by rail transit typically easy to do.
I didn't say all suburbs, I said a lot of them. There will be exceptions, like Virginia Beach, that have the wealth and growth and amenities and space to create new urban districts. But for every one Virginia Beach, there are 10 Warrens or Napiervilles that are 100% sprawl with no room for the development of urban cores and no chance of anyone giving up the land needed for one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2014, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,514,457 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
I didn't say all suburbs, I said a lot of them. There will be exceptions, like Virginia Beach, that have the wealth and growth and amenities and space to create new urban districts. But for every one Virginia Beach, there are 10 Warrens or Napiervilles that are 100% sprawl with no room for the development of urban cores and no chance of anyone giving up the land needed for one.
Sure, there will always be suburbs that will just be suburbs, but in many suburbs it isn't hard to find that old strip mall or shopping mall that could be redeveloped into an urban district within the suburbs. You will probably never see a modern day suburb restructuring its structure to look more like classic urban districts and old urban cities. They will probably take on a much different look when they do, but it also requires there to be a demand in those suburban places for this kind of urban developments.

People that are living in a suburban area that want only suburban style development is going to be against any type of urban development within their suburb and will probably have the zoning laws in that suburb on their side making it impossible for something like that to happen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2014, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,087 posts, read 17,561,114 times
Reputation: 10299
Quote:
Originally Posted by gottaq View Post
Will inner ring suburbs of the future urbanize themselves, becoming cities in their own sense? the population is gravitating towards urban centers, with walkability. will suburbs adapt to this or stay the same? and what will be the more successful place in the future, a city like allentown PA (it is a true city, but somewhat depressed) or the inner ring suburbs of Philly (much more wealth and jobs here). does allentown end up more successful than these suburbs due to being more urban? or do these suburbs become functioning cities themselves?
Yes.

[large and small]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-17-2014, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,416 posts, read 11,920,328 times
Reputation: 10536
Quote:
Originally Posted by armourereric View Post
Since you gave a PA example: Cranberry in Butler and now Mc Candless in Allegheny County seem to be developing a future version of their own "downtown". In Pittsburgh the Strip, Lawrenceville and East Liberty have made huge strides in upward dense residential development.

The slummy 1880's industrial row house my poor great uncle lived in from around 1950 to 1985 is now an upstairs/downstairs condo with both units in the mid $300's, and this is near 40th and Butler in Pittsburgh.
Cranberry isn't really seeing urbanization. It's turned from a bedroom community into more of an "edge city" with a mixture of offices, retail, and housing. But it's still pretty damn sprawly.

Better local examples are the TOD projects planned in Dormont and Castle Shannon.

For those not in the know, Dormont is a classic streetcar suburb, and actually has a higher population density than the city of Pitttsburgh. Castle Shannon is also a first-ring suburb of Pittsburgh, but is mostly autocentric suburban in style except around its historic core. They both have light rail stations "downtown" though, which makes them a rarity for Pittsburgh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Not entirely true, Virginia Beach is building a downtown and hasn't really needed to tear anything down, much of the area that is marked for their new downtown was once vacant land and is surrounded by aging strip malls that can be torn down and worked into an urban plan for the city.

Typically finding an old mall or dying strip malls is more than enough land to build an urban district in the suburbs. It is also easier to begin to connect new urban districts because a number of these dead malls and dying strip malls tend to be on major arterial roads that makes connecting them by rail transit typically easy to do.
You can build an "urban neighborhoodlet" this way in a suburban area, but it's not like it will turn the surrounding suburban areas into urban neighborhoods, since for the most part it won't be particularly walkable from them.

The best "suburbs" to urbanize are those which were built out in the streetcar era - before suburban dendritic road patterns became the norm. In these sorts of neighborhoods knocking down a house or two and building a small apartment often doesn't look too out of place, and since the basic fabric of the neighborhood was meant to be walkable (at least to the nearest transit stop) you have a legacy fabric which builds well to increasing density.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top