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Old 12-09-2014, 03:58 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
If all our cities could all be quaint SINGLE Victorians with nice green fronts like even above examples?
The first photo has a two family in it. The google street view link is mostly triple deckers.

Last edited by nei; 12-10-2014 at 09:44 AM..
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Old 12-09-2014, 10:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
If all our cities could all be quaint SINGLE Victorians with nice green fronts like even above examples? Some trees and nice back yards with garages too. Like in the movie ....." Meet Me in St Louis " I saw last week on TV. We call could feel comfortable? Just so many parts of some ......especially in big cities, (some more the others). They failed to achieve enough of that. I won't say where a lot of the bad choices were again and kinds of bad examples?
The problem is, "Meet Me In St. Louis" is not a documentary. What you saw there was a Hollywood movie set, not actual St. Louis in 1904. At the time, St. Louis was a city of about 600,000, almost twice as many as live there today! My wife visited St. Louis a few years ago, and she brought home many photos of the part she thought was the most beautiful--the Soulard, a neighborhood of brick row houses! Some were attached, some were close-set detached, some were single-family and some were duplexes.

I live in a neighborhood that many in my city and region think of as a neighborhood of quaint single-family Victorians. But 90% of the neighborhood is rental--many of those quaint Victorians are duplexes, fourplexes, sixplexes or other sorts of multi-unit housing, and the most common setback is 10 feet from the tree-lined sidewalk. But it looks like primarily single-family homes. It's what I call "Goldilocks density"--just right!
Attached Thumbnails
Rowhouses... problem for future of cities?-soulard1.jpg   Rowhouses... problem for future of cities?-soulard2.jpg   Rowhouses... problem for future of cities?-soulard3.jpg  
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Old 12-10-2014, 07:24 AM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
The problem is, "Meet Me In St. Louis" is not a documentary. What you saw there was a Hollywood movie set, not actual St. Louis in 1904. At the time, St. Louis was a city of about 600,000, almost twice as many as live there today! My wife visited St. Louis a few years ago, and she brought home many photos of the part she thought was the most beautiful--the Soulard, a neighborhood of brick row houses! Some were attached, some were close-set detached, some were single-family and some were duplexes.

I live in a neighborhood that many in my city and region think of as a neighborhood of quaint single-family Victorians. But 90% of the neighborhood is rental--many of those quaint Victorians are duplexes, fourplexes, sixplexes or other sorts of multi-unit housing, and the most common setback is 10 feet from the tree-lined sidewalk. But it looks like primarily single-family homes. It's what I call "Goldilocks density"--just right!
Those are ROW HOMES AND HALF-DOUBLE ROWS ⤴ Not singles ...YOU POSTED
The SET OF SINGLE VICTORIANS in that movie ARE THE STYLE OF PERFECT ONES ---some like them exist in small towns even some large cities across the US . NICE GREEN FRONT LAWNS TOO
Your pics are not singles as my reply to NEI's pictures were to say his side views appeared as such to me and quaint ? He then said they were Boston style triple-deckers.
In Chicago a multi-level family home is called a 2-flat and 3-flat home.

There are Row Victorians that are highly decorate to across the nation with nice front lawns even iron fences....they are what I meant as a perfect quaint Victorian. Not really Rows....
Though these are quaint Rows in Chicago just north of downtown. Brick and greystone rows .... and Very pricey. But Rows are not common in Chicago....the single cottage to greystone to bungalows ruled there.

Last edited by steeps; 06-06-2015 at 08:55 AM..
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:00 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
I would ask you?...
---Where is it to remain urban, keep density, realizing...with single homes as preferred today? Did Chicago fail in setting up a street grid with alleys where garages and power lines and garbage pick-up can go? Give homes set-back to provide a more open vista and pleasant walkable city? Did Chicago really fail here?and Row homes they should have went with?
First, I'm not saying Chicago failed or really trying to say anything negative about Chicago. I'm just giving my personal tastes. I don't particularly value having an open vista. For a denser neighborhood, I'd rather it feel more enclosed not open. Not claustrophobic, but don't see why wide open is a good thing. It's just blank. That Boston street had a decent scale. A small setback is nice because there can be some greenery on the street, don't really care for one big enough to have a sizable lawn, more something closer to my examples (though yea, I purposefully picked cute ones). Wide streets are worse, obviously needed on roads with lots of traffic but on a residential street? Why would I want to look at an open view of lots of asphalt. For example, the street in this San Francisco view is too wide, IMO. Especially since the lots are small, it looks the street takes a high % of space.



You could probably
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Old 12-10-2014, 08:44 PM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
First, I'm not saying Chicago failed or really trying to say anything negative about Chicago. I'm just giving my personal tastes. I don't particularly value having an open vista. For a denser neighborhood, I'd rather it feel more enclosed not open. Not claustrophobic, but don't see why wide open is a good thing. It's just blank. That Boston street had a decent scale. A small setback is nice because there can be some greenery on the street, don't really care for one big enough to have a sizable lawn, more something closer to my examples (though yea, I purposefully picked cute ones). Wide streets are worse, obviously needed on roads with lots of traffic but on a residential street? Why would I want to look at an open view of lots of asphalt. For example, the street in this San Francisco view is too wide, IMO. Especially since the lots are small, it looks the street takes a high % of space.

You could probably
Yes I do not find the street too wide...but a bit wider then a average Chicago street and homes to the sidewalk is not preferred by me. To me it is surprisingly void of green? In a city with no real winter. It does look a bit off balanced? But still nice homes. I can imagine the price for them....

I just much prefer Chicago's grid plan and green frontage and lawns as giving a dense Big City far less a claustrophobic feel with its mostly set-backs and front lawns. Surely over ....for example Philly going with mostly row homes and especially those horrendous solid wall, bland, to the sidewalk and on streets like a alley size ones ? The OP agrees LOL

I have a bit of a double standard on rows. I can accept and like a Victorian, Greystone and brownstone Row especially with nice green in front.....but most others meh....
I appreciated Chicago's varieties from early Cottage style singles(early 1900,s) to the Bungalow era of Frank Lloyd Wright inspired prairie-style and use of oak, stained glass and brick (1920s-1940s) to its Mid-Century Modern varieties (1950s-1960s) my relatives had. With their Platinum Woodwork and Kitchen Cabinets and Pink Brick for sides and back and still light varieties in front. That don't get dirty.

It seemed Chicago embraced new AMERICAN STYLES and why "Most American City" works for me. Even its skyscrapers and parks say American more then European inspired?
My likes are eclectic I can love a Victorian to Mid-century modern.

Since I like pictures....

This is some oldest Victorians in a Lincoln Park neighborhood⤵ just north of downtown...love the Greenery

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9255...JsuvzqJLUw!2e0

Some mid-century modern bungalows Harwood Heights neighborhood ⤵ northwest side .... I find classic too

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9715...XAr4F9J0Zg!2e0

Last edited by steeps; 12-10-2014 at 09:44 PM..
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
Those are ROW HOMES AND HALF-DOUBLE ROWS ⤴ Not singles ...YOU POSTED

The SET OF SINGLE VICTORIANS in that movie ARE THE STYLE OF PERFECT ONES ---some like them exist in small towns even some large cities across the US . NICE GREEN FRONT LAWNS TOO
Your pics are not singles as my reply to NEI's pictures were to say his side views appeared as such to me and quaint ? He then said they were Boston style triple-deckers.
In Chicago a multi-level family home is called a 2-flat and 3-flat home.

There are Row Victorians that are highly decorate to across the nation with nice front lawns even iron fences....they are what I meant as a perfect quaint Victorian. Not really Rows....
Though these are quaint Rows in Chicago just north of downtown. Brick and greystone rows .... and Very pricey. But Rows are not common in Chicago....the single cottage to greystone to bungalows ruled there.
Yes, I know. I was pointing out that the real-world St. Louis had both attached row houses and detached single-family homes, as do most cities settled in the early/mid 19th century or before, and in a cold climate where attached walls were advantageous.

edit: Hm...it appears that Kensington Avenue, the "location" for Meet Me In St. Louis, was a set built entirely for the film, not actual St. Louis Victorian homes. It wasn't even located in St. Louis--it was built on the MGM back lot.

http://hookedonhouses.net/2009/12/13...ensington-ave/

It looks like the "Victorians" you are posting are row homes, sure they're fancier than the red-brick row houses of the Soulard, but basically the same type of building, just in more of a Queen Anne, Romanesque, or Second Empire Italianate style ("Victorian" just refers to an era of construction, not a style.) In Sacramento, our Victorian homes range from the Second Empire and Stick, Queen Anne and Shingle, all the surviving examples are detached row houses on lots generally 40 feet wide except for a couple of particularly spectacular mansions. There are a few brick homes but almost all of them are wood, for purposes of ventilation and availability of really high-quality wood. I think there may have been a few attached row houses in the really old neighborhoods but all examples were demolished in the mid 20th century.
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Old 12-11-2014, 07:05 AM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
Yes, I know. I was pointing out that the real-world St. Louis had both attached row houses and detached single-family homes, as do most cities settled in the early/mid 19th century or before, and in a cold climate where attached walls were advantageous.

edit: Hm...it appears that Kensington Avenue, the "location" for Meet Me In St. Louis, was a set built entirely for the film, not actual St. Louis Victorian homes. It wasn't even located in St. Louis--it was built on the MGM back lot.

Meet Me in St. Louis: The Victorian on Kensington Ave.

It looks like the "Victorians" you are posting are row homes, sure they're fancier than the red-brick row houses of the Soulard, but basically the same type of building, just in more of a Queen Anne, Romanesque, or Second Empire Italianate style ("Victorian" just refers to an era of construction, not a style.) In Sacramento, our Victorian homes range from the Second Empire and Stick, Queen Anne and Shingle, all the surviving examples are detached row houses on lots generally 40 feet wide except for a couple of particularly spectacular mansions. There are a few brick homes but almost all of them are wood, for purposes of ventilation and availability of really high-quality wood. I think there may have been a few attached row houses in the really old neighborhoods but all examples were demolished in the mid 20th century.
Everyone knows......all old Hollywood used studio sets...back lots for city scenes. They didn't have portable cameras especially for color. The comment was on a perfect scene for a front lawn Victorian setting as to Nei's picture appeared from the side? He then said they were Boston-style Triple-deckers. But I thought of the movie of what to me is a street of perfect Victorians on lawed streets. Them kind of homes do exist all across the US. Of course not as in the movie on the street scene sets of MGM. Kind of like the perfect yet typical Main Street ...street they built for Disneyworld/land.

As for ROWS I dislike them. I live in small town US far too many by me... and in Philly you can find the blocks of Rows so tight, narrow, bland, to the sidewalk, on a alley size street and the block is a solid wall. Those the OP meant cities may want to tear them down and start over? Especially if in disrepair areas. Some of Chicago's neighborhoods can be tight. But most have nice set-backs of singles.

I merely gave the 360 of some Victorians in Chicago to show so close buildings are in some oldest neighborhoods and as far as Rows go WITH A FRONT LAWN. I FIND THEM ACCEPTABLE....JUST TOO PRETTY NOT TO. THEY ARE VIRTUAL ROWS ...MOST HAVE INCHES BETWEEN THEN AND WERE NOT BUILT ALL THE SAME TIME LIKE A ASSEMBLY LINE. Some are actual ones.
I noted in every post Chicago has a low number of Rows and that choice after the Chicago Fire resulted in mostly front lawn street scenes, homes set back off the streets of singles block after block instead of Rows Homes block after block. There are oldest blocks of exceptions many in gentrified areas near downtown.

I gave the 360 goggle in total opposite in Chicago from the tight Victorians. The Mid-Century Modern I knew on Chicago's Northwest side built during its last spurt of city growth in the 50s to mid-60s. I find them just as quaint and a unique American inspired style. Perhaps unique for Chicago? Nei does not like a large front lawn and sees it as a waste of city urban space? I say Chicago's set-backs create non-claustrophobic neighborhoods with a open vistas that look more desirable today over if it were Rows close to the sidewalk
Chicago set a standard lot size of 25'x 125' as standard for the city in the late 1800s.
Here is a older neighborhood with the set-backs and mostly singles Chicago chose over Rows like in the East....

this neighborhood by Wrigley field with greystone homes⤵

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9482...x5jeYPxTPQ!2e0

This a older cottage neighborhood so quaint it could be on a old MGM back lot⤵

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9571...Zg1nWZ2-Yg!2e0
.
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Old 12-11-2014, 07:23 PM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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I COULDN'T RESIST.... Here is a 360 DETATCHED VICTORIANS ....WHO WOULDN'T LOVE. Even ....Nei...YOU WOULD APPROVE OF?

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9255...JsuvzqJLUw!2e0
.
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Old 12-11-2014, 09:32 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,985 posts, read 41,937,844 times
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Here's an interesting streets cape of rows set back a bit on a slope from England:

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.1047...ILYByaCosQ!2e0
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Old 12-12-2014, 07:04 AM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Here's an interesting streets cape of rows set back a bit on a slope from England:

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.1047...ILYByaCosQ!2e0
At first I didn't see England? I was thinking you posted a New England, maybe Boson scene? I thought.... I see the British feel here? Then I saw the Google 360 had England as the location......I surely see in them Rows the British influence in many half-double types especially... by me too. There is a walled street like that by me... a higher and lower road.

Last edited by steeps; 12-12-2014 at 07:17 AM..
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