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Old 12-05-2014, 03:46 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,989 posts, read 102,554,590 times
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Here's a neat video of Denver's downtown from sun-up to sunset.
What 24 Hours Of Walking Around Denver Looks Like | KUNC
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Old 12-05-2014, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,732 posts, read 9,841,195 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
Government didn't destroy the trolley system in the US ? GM and the petroleum industry did.
The competition did conspire to destroy urban electric rail mass transit.
However, the PROGRESSIVES (collectivists) also had a hand. Any infrastructure that was privately owned and operated for profit was targeted.
. . .
An example of "benevolent" government is here:
The Third Rail - Back to the Future - page 1
The End of Innovation

New York City politics was not standing still, however. Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia, who had taken office in 1933, was no friend of streetcars, of elevated lines, or of private ownership of transit. He pressed relentlessly for “Unification,” the City takeover of the BMT and IRT. The IRT was happy to go out of business but the BMT fought almost to the last.
After taking over the private companies, not only did the innovations of the BMT end, but the City lost its taste for subway building. The IND “Second System” of 1929 remains unbuilt. The private lines that attracted IND competition were abandoned, several immediately and more as the years went on.
. . .
Ridiculous taxation and obstruction of private rail transportation while expending public funds to subsidize all other forms of transportation IS a deliberate policy of government.
Amtrak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
“In one extreme example, in 1959, the Great Northern Railway, which owned about a third of one percent (0.34%) of the land in Lincoln County, Montana, was assessed more than 91% of all school taxes in the county. To this day, railroads are generally taxed at a higher rate than other industries, and the rates vary greatly from state to state.”
. . ..
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Old 12-06-2014, 07:38 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,989 posts, read 102,554,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
During the era of the horse and carriage, the overwhelming majority of the population DID NOT OWN A HORSE AND CARRIAGE. People didn't necessarily travel downtown for work--if they worked downtown, generally they also lived downtown. The residents of downtown generally didn't leave downtown for daily needs, because, as you say, they had small local stores and had items delivered (furniture, groceries, milk, ice etc.)
Farm people generally did own a horse and carriage (though you corrected me on that term once, said my family likely owned a horse and "buggy"), and prior to 1920 or so, the majority of the population was rural.

In 1920, there were 3 cities of > 1 million people (NYC had 5 million then), and 9 >500,000. Altogether there were 68 >100,000 people. These cities were all too big to be able to traverse them easily on foot. People had to get where they were going somehow.
https://www.census.gov/population/ww...0027/tab15.txt
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Old 12-06-2014, 07:43 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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And in none of them big cities did most people travel by horse and carriage.
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Old 12-06-2014, 08:04 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
And in none of them big cities did most people travel by horse and carriage.
Before the automobile, the streets of New York were full of horse, er, excrement, so people were traveling by horses. There were horse-drawn streetcars, fire trucks, etc. There were the old hansom cabs you see in Sherlock Holmes movies.
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Old 12-06-2014, 08:08 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Before the automobile, the streets of New York were full of horse, er, excrement, so people were traveling by horses. There were horse-drawn streetcars, fire trucks, etc. There were the old hansom cabs you see in Sherlock Holmes movies.
That doesn't contradict my statement.

That doesn't mean most people were traveling by horse-drawn carriages. Similarly, the streets Manhattan are filled with cars today. But most people do travel around Manhattan by car. Very few people then had a place to store a horse and carriage in New York for sure.
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Old 12-06-2014, 08:10 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,989 posts, read 102,554,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
That doesn't contradict my statement.

That doesn't mean most people were traveling by horse-drawn carriages. Similarly, the streets Manhattan are filled with cars today. But most people do travel around Manhattan by car.
Is a streetcar not a "carriage", in other words, a box to carry people around?
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Old 12-06-2014, 08:15 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Is a streetcar not a "carriage", in other words, a box to carry people around?
Don't think so, but we were only talking about horse drawn ones anyway. But the argument was on most people owning a horse and a carriage not a carriage in general.
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Old 12-06-2014, 08:23 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,989 posts, read 102,554,590 times
Reputation: 33053
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Don't think so, but we were only talking about horse drawn ones anyway. But the argument was on most people owning a horse and a carriage not a carriage in general.
The argument went beyond that, to how city-dwellers traveled. wburg was postulating they didn't travel at all, except, perhaps by foot (though not stated in his post). Just because most people IN CITIES didn't own horses and carriages, that doesn't mean people in cities didn't travel by horse and some sort of carriage, be it a streetcar or a hansom or their own personal carriage. See below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
During the era of the horse and carriage, the overwhelming majority of the population DID NOT OWN A HORSE AND CARRIAGE. People didn't necessarily travel downtown for work--if they worked downtown, generally they also lived downtown. The residents of downtown generally didn't leave downtown for daily needs, because, as you say, they had small local stores and had items delivered (furniture, groceries, milk, ice etc.)
See also definition of carriage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carriage
I see they do put public passenger vehicles in a different category. Nevertheless, they carry people.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 12-06-2014 at 08:33 AM..
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Old 12-06-2014, 08:38 AM
 
34,365 posts, read 41,446,089 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santafe400 View Post
Okay. I know as most everybody on this forum is aware that there are indeed exceptions to the rule. However, on my travels to many cities around this nation that after 6 pm or on weekends many downtown areas look like modern ghost towns. Sure many cities may have a block or two of moderate vibrancy, but I always found it odd that the heart of any metro region (usually the downtown area) almost always seems to be the most desolate.

My question is, how and when did it get this way? I only find it interesting because so many downtowns have some wonderful hidden gems that so many residents never seem to take advantage of.
Many cities no longer or were never designed with the idea of people living in them. Cities where all the buildings are office towers are going to not be vibrant places after business hours if every one has returned to the suburbs.
Tampa is a classic example, about 6pm the city closes up and becomes a ghost town until around 7-8am the next day
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