U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-22-2014, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
2,610 posts, read 3,760,401 times
Reputation: 1616

Advertisements

These are some more zoomed in aerials of Detroit's east end neighbourhoods which were it's original black neighbourhoods and were cleared out for the Chrysler Freeway and Brush Park and Lafayette Park redevelopments (except the last street level pic which is from Corktown).
Why is new housing in Detroit rarely multi-family residential? - Page 2

This is a picture of one of the more slum-like areas of Detroit back in the day.

https://funnelme.wordpress.com/2012/...troit-paradox/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-22-2014, 09:10 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,985 posts, read 41,937,844 times
Reputation: 14804
Yea, the sliders don't show much on what was demolished. Still, old housing could have been replaced with more modern housing rather than non-residential. Of course, for Detroit the effects of urban renewal for clearance is minor compared to abandonment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2014, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,061 posts, read 16,070,870 times
Reputation: 12636
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I didn't suggest that. I was responding to another post that suggested people on the outskirts were responsible.



Demolishing an old area is "ruined" to me. I suppose some would disagree, but I'd call it "ruined".
Most of China Basin in San Francisco (AT&T Park and surrounding) was demolished. I wouldn't call it ruined. It's not my favorite part of San Francisco, but it's a damn sight better than when it was mostly abandoned warehouses. They've kept a few of the old warehouses and converted them, but it's mostly been demolished. Emeryville by Pixar as well. It used to look a lot more like East Oakland just on the other side of the freeway. The difference was it used to make East Oakland look good.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2014, 09:17 PM
 
2,824 posts, read 3,348,447 times
Reputation: 3030
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I didn't suggest that. I was responding to another post that suggested people on the outskirts were responsible.

Demolishing an old area is "ruined" to me. I suppose some would disagree, but I'd call it "ruined".

Well you want it both ways. The logic utilized by many in this forum would suggest the population should never have strayed from Plymouth Rock. Nothing lasts forever and the living shouldn't be constrained by the hand of the dead in this arena.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2014, 09:23 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,985 posts, read 41,937,844 times
Reputation: 14804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Most of China Basin in San Francisco (AT&T Park and surrounding) was demolished. I wouldn't call it ruined. It's not my favorite part of San Francisco, but it's a damn sight better than when it was mostly abandoned warehouses. They've kept a few of the old warehouses and converted them, but it's mostly been demolished. Emeryville by Pixar as well. It used to look a lot more like East Oakland just on the other side of the freeway. The difference was it used to make East Oakland look good.
I was referring to the changes in some of the links. For the Cinncinati view, it looked an old urban neighborhood was replaced by an expressway, warehouses and a few vacant lots.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2014, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,061 posts, read 16,070,870 times
Reputation: 12636
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I was referring to the changes in some of the links. For the Cinncinati view, it looked an old urban neighborhood was replaced by an expressway, warehouses and a few vacant lots.
St. Louis is the biggest hemorrhager of population in the United States ahead of even Detroit on a percentage basis. Many of the others aren't far off. When you lose 60% of your population, you tend to have a lot of abandoned areas. Removing excess unwanted buildings actually tends to help areas recover in most cases.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2014, 09:42 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,985 posts, read 41,937,844 times
Reputation: 14804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
St. Louis is the biggest hemorrhager of population in the United States ahead of even Detroit on a percentage basis. Many of the others aren't far off. When you lose 60% of your population, you tend to have a lot of abandoned areas. Removing excess unwanted buildings actually tends to help areas recover in most cases.
I'm not really familiar with either city, but the views were focusing on the area right by the city center, usually the densest and most historic part. Baltimore's area right by downtown are in decent shape even if much of the city isn't. Though they did experience a high population loss, but it's more from household size change.

A bit of a tangent, but this town lost half of its population compared to peak. Not much abandonment noticeable, I never noticed any the times I've been there:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/No...63876b3bcc94ed
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2014, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,061 posts, read 16,070,870 times
Reputation: 12636
Looks like the little village center is about half parking lots. From looking at the old picture on Wikipedia it doesn't appear it always was. Good example of removing excess unwanted buildings helping things recover.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2014, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
2,610 posts, read 3,760,401 times
Reputation: 1616
There was a fair bit that was cleared out in Detroit too though, some areas were cleared out and then never rebuilt. Others were redeveloped with low density industrial uses.

This is a paper from the 50s classifying various city blocks based on level of blight and recommending certain areas to redevelop.
Redevelopment study : selection of areas and assignment ... . - Full View | HathiTrust Digital Library | HathiTrust Digital Library

One part of the study used census data at census tract level to recommend redevelopment based on
-poverty related characteristics such as overcrowding, income and average rent were major criteria for determining whether a block was to be redeveloped
-old structures were considered to be bad just because of their age
-the above two factors probably could be correlated to run-down/low quality buildings, but even if the buildings managed to not be run-down despite their age and poverty, they were still likely to be recommended for demolition (low home ownership was also a minor factor)

It's interesting that poverty was considered a factor towards redevelopment, did they just expect the low income residents to disappear with the demolition of their neighbourhoods?

-also while the study seemed to recognize blocks could contain both blighted and non-blighted structures, they recommended razing the block in entirety if a sufficiently high % was blighted, so for some reason retaining well kept buildings was not considered an option (too complicated?)

There was also a (related?) field survey measuring blight
-the survey was done by two people from a slow moving car
-there was one rating for structural quality that had reasonable criteria (i.e. is it falling apart or poorly built), but also an environmental criteria for rating blight that included lack of adequate yard space, accumulation of trash/rubbish, too much traffic, lack of off-street parking/overcrowded on-street parking and lack of separation between residential and commercial or industrial uses
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2014, 10:14 PM
 
Location: SoCal & Mid-TN
2,201 posts, read 2,137,037 times
Reputation: 2636
The psychological of overcrowding are well researched and not pretty. I don't understand the current drive to stack people on top of one another in dense neighborhoods. People are animals and animals need space. Commuter rail is a good solution to suburban sprawl but few cities are willing to invest in it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top