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Old 12-26-2014, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,519,126 times
Reputation: 7830

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
I-35 runs from Laredo, Texas to Duluth, Minnesota - nowhere near Portland.
Austin is a mere blip on the map.

Folks in this area of the country don't insert articles before interstate names.

I-405 is around 3 miles long. That's more like an on-ramp or off-ramp - not an interstate through a city.
It wasn't torn down and it wasn't "capped". By the way some called the proposed cap the "dunce cap". The same pitiful "reconnect" (pretext) logic was used by proponents of the dunce cap.

The only interstate in Portland comparable to I-35 in Austin is I-5.
Fortunately for Portland taxpayers, Portland doesn't have the financial resources to waste additional taxpayer money on a dunce cap for the vain.

I-405, I-205 and I-5 are intact - not "already torn down".
The 405 is a downtown freeway, just as only a small portion of I-35 runs through downtown Austin. I never once said I-35 ran through Portland, not sure where you got that idea from.

Clearly you dont know about the freeway torn down in Portland so let me Google that for you.
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Old 12-26-2014, 06:16 PM
 
2,824 posts, read 3,349,928 times
Reputation: 3030
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
The 405 is a downtown freeway, just as only a small portion of I-35 runs through downtown Austin. I never once said I-35 ran through Portland, not sure where you got that idea from.

Clearly you dont know about the freeway torn down in Portland so let me Google that for you.
Well perhaps you could read the article yourself. The article mentions one street being closed off over 45 years ago. So? Is that all? Attempts by faux-empathetic urbanists trying to rip out interstates to "reconnect" have failed in Portland. None of the interstates have been torn down, buried, or capped.
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Old 12-26-2014, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,519,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
Well perhaps you could read the article yourself. The article mentions one street being closed off over 45 years ago. So? Is that all? Attempts by faux-empathetic urbanists trying to rip out interstates to "reconnect" have failed in Portland. None of the interstates have been torn down, buried, or capped.
Portland removed the Harbor Drive Freeway to create a waterfront park, it has been a successful removal of a freeway. Getting a beautiful waterfront park is not something one would call "failed."

As for capping or anything, the 405 in Portland will eventually be capped, and seeing it is already below grade, it would only need the caps built.

Not sure why that is so hard for you to grasp. Also, not sure why you are so against any removal of any freeway or burying freeways in appropriate areas. It really sounds like you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.
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Old 12-26-2014, 07:17 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,922,814 times
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Once easy transport by roadway is gone the area dies from lack of good roads. its effects all kind of business just like higher crime does.
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Old 12-26-2014, 07:47 PM
 
2,824 posts, read 3,349,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Portland removed the Harbor Drive Freeway to create a waterfront park, it has been a successful removal of a freeway. Getting a beautiful waterfront park is not something one would call "failed."

As for capping or anything, the 405 in Portland will eventually be capped, and seeing it is already below grade, it would only need the caps built.

Not sure why that is so hard for you to grasp. Also, not sure why you are so against any removal of any freeway or burying freeways in appropriate areas. It really sounds like you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.
In reverse order, the OP (a denizen of the area of Austin, Texas) referred to tearing down 60 year old "urban freeways". When asked what that would be in the Austin area, he identified I-35 and spoke of "reconnecting" and "healing". In other words, no logical argument whatsoever. OverTaxedInNY accurately assessed the real issue: http://www.city-data.com/forum/37755643-post17.html

Your big argument is that one road was removed 45 years ago in Portland. Again, so what? It wasn't an interstate nor has any interstate in Portland been torn out, buried, or capped despite angst and lobbying of activist urbanists. To that extent such attempts have definitely failed and Portland has nothing comparable to what Khomet covets. I-405 is short and hardly more than an on ramp or off ramp. As far as caps being built over I-405: it hasn't happened, isn't on any schedule to happen, there aren't funds for it, etc. The sun is likely to enter red giant phase first.

In terms of being argumentative, you've attempted to turn this into a Portland v Austin thread. Austin envy? The most you've contributed is that Portland eliminated a city street 45 years ago - big whoop. Feel free to identify any 60 year old freeways in Portland that are scheduled for or that you propose for demolition today. Try to come up with a better argument than "healing" and "reconnecting" when there are underpasses every block or every few blocks.
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Old 12-26-2014, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,519,126 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Once easy transport by roadway is gone the area dies from lack of good roads. its effects all kind of business just like higher crime does.
Freeways aren't always easy transportation modes. Sometimes they create more problems than they do good.
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Old 12-26-2014, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,519,126 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
In reverse order, the OP (a denizen of the area of Austin, Texas) referred to tearing down 60 year old "urban freeways". When asked what that would be in the Austin area, he identified I-35 and spoke of "reconnecting" and "healing". In other words, no logical argument whatsoever. OverTaxedInNY accurately assessed the real issue: http://www.city-data.com/forum/37755643-post17.html

Your big argument is that one road was removed 45 years ago in Portland. Again, so what? It wasn't an interstate nor has any interstate in Portland been torn out, buried, or capped despite angst and lobbying of activist urbanists. To that extent such attempts have definitely failed and Portland has nothing comparable to what Khomet covets. I-405 is short and hardly more than an on ramp or off ramp. As far as caps being built over I-405: it hasn't happened, isn't on any schedule to happen, there aren't funds for it, etc. The sun is likely to enter red giant phase first.

In terms of being argumentative, you've attempted to turn this into a Portland v Austin thread. Austin envy? The most you've contributed is that Portland eliminated a city street 45 years ago - big whoop. Feel free to identify any 60 year old freeways in Portland that are scheduled for or that you propose for demolition today. Try to come up with a better argument than "healing" and "reconnecting" when there are underpasses every block or every few blocks.
First, the OP is talking about keeping I-35, but just having it buried. Second, the title of this thread says "freeway," that would imply it means all state and interstate freeways. That would mean the removal of a freeway in Portland 45 years ago is a valid point to this conversation.

Also, I am not sure where you get this idea that I am trying to make this a Portland vs Austin thread? I am using Portland as a reference because that city actually removed a freeway in its downtown. I identified a freeway that has been removed in a downtown, Harbor Drive Freeway was NOT a city street. Feel free to Google pictures of it if you are unaware of what the freeway looked like.
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Old 12-26-2014, 08:33 PM
 
3,836 posts, read 4,715,010 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
First, the OP is talking about keeping I-35, but just having it buried. Second, the title of this thread says "freeway," that would imply it means all state and interstate freeways. That would mean the removal of a freeway in Portland 45 years ago is a valid point to this conversation.

Also, I am not sure where you get this idea that I am trying to make this a Portland vs Austin thread? I am using Portland as a reference because that city actually removed a freeway in its downtown. I identified a freeway that has been removed in a downtown, Harbor Drive Freeway was NOT a city street. Feel free to Google pictures of it if you are unaware of what the freeway looked like.
Don't mind IC, he's gets confused a lot. Disoriented too. He detests cities passionately yet finds himself in city forums commenting on city planning.
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Old 12-26-2014, 08:39 PM
 
3,836 posts, read 4,715,010 times
Reputation: 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
In reverse order, the OP (a denizen of the area of Austin, Texas) referred to tearing down 60 year old "urban freeways". When asked what that would be in the Austin area, he identified I-35 and spoke of "reconnecting" and "healing".
For the record I said:

"I fully endorse the efforts to cut and cap I-35 through Central Austin. For a modest price there would be an amazing return to the connectivity of our downtown and between east and west Austin."
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Old 12-26-2014, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
7,542 posts, read 8,421,952 times
Reputation: 3483
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Freeways aren't always easy transportation modes. Sometimes they create more problems than they do good.
Its certainly true that not all freeways are well thought out, and don't always make things easier.

But getting rid of already established roads that people need to get to work is likely to cause terrible problems.

Maybe, theoretically, the middle class should have never been established and their habitats in the suburbs should have never been built. However, they were, and the houses in the suburbs will be out there for another century or longer, and the middle class workers out there are going to need to get around.
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