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Old 12-28-2014, 01:55 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgn2013 View Post
It's not "white flight" but instead "money flight." If you replace middle/upper middle class white people with middle/upper middle class minorities, nothing will really change in the neighborhood.
Maybe the neighborhood won't change much, but there are times when whites left or at least wouldn't move into a neighborhood with a highly immigrant but non poor neighborhood because it feels too foreign. And there are some middle class black neighborhoods where the whites mostly left even though the. Newcomers weren't much different income wise. Parts of SE Queens, prince Georges county.
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Old 12-28-2014, 02:01 PM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,955,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradPiff View Post
White flight in the 50's was when whites moved to the burbs to get away from the blacks. The interstate highway system was built specifically so whites could go back and forth from their cushy jobs in the cities without having to travel through black urban neighborhoods.
With rare exception this pretty much never happened and never really made much sense. All the data is available from Census. Young white couples moved out of their parents' crowded houses in the city and on to new, larger, subsidized accommodations in the suburbs. Generally speaking the older generation stayed behind. The demographics of most cities changed linearly (gradually). There was no epochal decade. As most new white families were being formed in the suburbs it was a slow, generational event. The single biggest factor in the decline of urban populations in the US and specifically the decline in the urban white population wasn't a matter of the number of the white households in the city but rather the number of people in those households. After that it was that most white household formation was happening in the suburbs so as older householders died off there was no one to replace them. The same thing happened with black families in the 70s-90s as the black middle class also moved to the suburbs. This is why there's so much abandonment in cities like Philadelphia, Baltimore, etc. A generation of white kids in the suburbs wanted nothing to do with the estates of their parents in the city. The next generation of black kids in the suburbs did the same thing.


Quote:
White flight in 2014 is to the rapidly gentrifying certain urban areas like Harlem In NYC(usually artsy areas, near museums, nightlife, universities or downtown).
While it may be true that those places have become more pricey the extent to which neighborhoods near museums and nightlife have become more white in the last 20 years is questionable. The white population of most cities is unchanged or down since 1990 (except in those cities which are still annexing their suburbs) the only difference in the white population is which neighborhoods they're living in and how much money they have. At most, the white population of most cities has leveled off or may experience some slow growth in the future but it's still way too early to tell to what extent these new families will keep their children in cities (common for upper-income families who can afford private school) and whether or not those kids will choose to raise their kids in the city.
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Old 12-28-2014, 02:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgn2013 View Post
It's not "white flight" but instead "money flight." If you replace middle/upper middle class white people with middle/upper middle class minorities, nothing will really change in the neighborhood.

What usually happens is that middle/upper middle whites leave and poor to working class minorities move in. You'd have the same issues if poor whites moved in. Throw out the ritziest whites in Beverly Hills and replace them with poor, welfare dependent whites from Appalachia. What do you think would happen?
Though sometimes you have the same issues if poor whites move in it seems that the criminal behavior is missing and they make attempts to fit in.

One of the homes in our neighborhood rented to a family who has moved in a bunch of relatives, garbage always overflowing, mattress and busted toys in the yard. However, there doesn't seem to be drug dealing going on. No shootings or stabbings. When the neighbors and landlord asked them to pick the place up, they did.

They want to raise their kids in a nice neighborhood and are willing to conform to community standards once they realized what they were.

Another home rented to a black mother and her kids have toys strewn about the front yard, always a bunch of "friends" coming and going. They told the neighbors and the landord to mind their own business when asked to clean up their act. Called the neighbors a bunch of racist, nosy busy bodies.

Some of it is income. But some of it is attitude and behavior.
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Old 12-28-2014, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Clinton Township, MI
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Wow, just wow. Thank you for deleting my posts and silencing my opinion Nei. This is why nobody speaks TRUTH anymore, anytime you tell it like it really is, you are SILENCED by society.
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Old 12-28-2014, 03:13 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
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It is happening in Memphis, and it has been for decades. Memphis still occasionally annexes areas in Shelby County, and people begin moving after being annexed due to the crime that comes with annexation. As Memphis annexes areas, the values drop. The surrounding suburbs have a firm grasp on crime, so wealthier people (usually white) move East as lower income people (usually black) move into the newly annexed areas that are dropping in value. I don't think it has anything to do with racism. Wealthier people just want to stay away from high crime areas, and they can afford to do so. It has come to the point where people are now moving to the adjoining county to the East (Fayette) and North Mississippi. Those areas are booming. Memphis never really changes, and there is a terrible urban culture in large parts of the city (parents missing, teens unsupervised, high truancy rate, too many kids for income, etc), so there aren't many people moving in. This year, we've had a few instances of teen mobs attacking people or causing disturbances of 200+ people. It seems like that's happening more and more.
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Old 12-28-2014, 03:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
With rare exception this pretty much never happened and never really made much sense.
that's pretty much entirely wrong
the urban renewal of the 1950s and 1960s was not young people just starting out, it was established home owners dumping their city homes in a panic and moving out to the suburbs due to fears of minorities moving in. Look up blockbusting. It was so prevalent in 2nd tier cities that it was banned in the fair housing act of 68.
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Old 12-28-2014, 03:49 PM
 
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O.k here is what puzzles me. For the last fifty years after the Civil Rights Act, the War on Poverty and the Fair Housing Act we still see enclaves of black communities. This is not to me white flight, but blacks not moving up and out and as a black friend said "we have regressed". So is it because blacks "chose" not to integrate, white flight or is there another reason? I grew up in a city north of Boston which was and still is pretty integrated so it has remained a mystery to me.
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Old 12-28-2014, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Maybe middle-class flight is a problem, as it usually means the area is going downhill.
I agree with this. Personally, I don't care if Whites (or any other race) chooses to leave, as long as the income level remains the same. I can tell you this, lower middle classed or working classed Whites are the ones who practice "white flight" because Whites who are of higher income don't flee. They stay put. We are a multiracial-multiethnical family in the process of buying a house in the $400k-$500k range. I really doubt the White families are going to throw their half million dollar homes up for sale because we're moving in.
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Old 12-28-2014, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
Though sometimes you have the same issues if poor whites move in it seems that the criminal behavior is missing and they make attempts to fit in.

One of the homes in our neighborhood rented to a family who has moved in a bunch of relatives, garbage always overflowing, mattress and busted toys in the yard. However, there doesn't seem to be drug dealing going on. No shootings or stabbings. When the neighbors and landlord asked them to pick the place up, they did.

They want to raise their kids in a nice neighborhood and are willing to conform to community standards once they realized what they were.

Another home rented to a black mother and her kids have toys strewn about the front yard, always a bunch of "friends" coming and going. They told the neighbors and the landord to mind their own business when asked to clean up their act. Called the neighbors a bunch of racist, nosy busy bodies.

Some of it is income. But some of it is attitude and behavior.
Yes, but were there any shootings or stabbings or drug dealing?

Historically poor ethnic Whites have also participated in gang warfare.
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Old 12-28-2014, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
10,782 posts, read 10,192,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Better Than You View Post
Thank you. I'm a white, blue collar guy who lives in a nice, white (99%) neighborhood in Philadelphia. Nobody here is rich, we have some white trash, but it's safe (only one murder in the last 24 years, few armed robberies, some property theft by junkies and there was a black on white rape a few years back), has good schools and is generally clean and graffiti-free. There are drugs like anywhere else, but you won't find open-air drug corners, and if there's "activity" at a house, the neighbors won't tolerate it. A lot of people who live here are "involved" in keeping the neighborhood nice, and it's starting to show in property values, which, obviously is a good sign.
Personally, I get along with blacks and Hispanics in my day to day activities, but, no, I don't want them moving into my neighborhood. I've seen what happens to neighborhoods like mine when they begin to "change," and it's never good for people like me. I'm tired of being labeled "racist" for being realistic ... Our goal is to keep the neighborhood going in the right direction, pricing the white trash out and having it too expensive for the ghetto trash to move in. We have very little Section 8, which also helps the cause ... I've watched that program bring solid, working-class neighborhoods to their knees. It's sad that we even have to worry about this ...
Ok. Check this. Say my husband and I want to move into your neighborhood. Our h/h income in the Northeast would probably be in the high 100s to low 200s range. You'd have a problem with that. Just being born a shade of brown means that we are every negative thing you can think of.
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