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Old 12-28-2014, 04:26 PM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,955,202 times
Reputation: 1953

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rzzzz View Post
that's pretty much entirely wrong
the urban renewal of the 1950s and 1960s was not young people just starting out, it was established home owners dumping their city homes in a panic and moving out to the suburbs due to fears of minorities moving in. Look up blockbusting. It was so prevalent in 2nd tier cities that it was banned in the fair housing act of 68.
You can look at my other posts on the subject in other threads in this forum. I've been studying the issue for 20 years and have done graduate and professional level research on the topic. You're just repeating the trope that you've been told and it doesn't stand up well to scrutiny. Your use of "urban renewal also demonstrates that you're not really following my point and that you don't really understand what urban renewal was.

Just as an example, if what you're saying is true - that white people were dumping their homes in a panic to move to the suburbs - then neighborhoods would be 90% white in one census and 10% white in the next. This never happened. The transition from post WWII to the bottoming out of the white population took 40+ years in most cases and it declined by fairly even, predictable numbers from decade to decade in nearly all cases. In fact, in many cases, white urban populations began to shift to the suburbs in the 1920s. In Philadelphia in particular most population growth and nearly all white population growth was happening in the suburbs from the 1920 census on. The only reason the white population of the city remained fairly constant (in numbers, not in percent) was because of sustained European immigration. As soon as that stopped the white population declined predictably.

Anyone who can read census data can clearly see that in the 1950s and 60s the number of white people in the family formation stage of life dwindled dramatically. Older people generally stuck around.

Last edited by drive carephilly; 12-28-2014 at 04:35 PM..
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Old 12-28-2014, 04:53 PM
 
1,774 posts, read 1,835,805 times
Reputation: 2701
Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
You can look at my other posts on the subject in other threads in this forum. I've been studying the issue for 20 years and have done graduate and professional level research on the topic. You're just repeating the trope that you've been told and it doesn't stand up well to scrutiny. Your use of "urban renewal also demonstrates that you're not really following my point and that you don't really understand what urban renewal was.

Just as an example, if what you're saying is true - that white people were dumping their homes in a panic to move to the suburbs - then neighborhoods would be 90% white in one census and 10% white in the next. This never happened.
It certainly did happen in south side Chicago and the surrounding near-in suburbs. Berwyn and Cicero were 100% white and north and south lawndale were 10% white after "white flight." I seriously doubt a random city-data loser like yourself even went to college, much less did "graduate research" on the topic, or any topic. LOL.
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Old 12-28-2014, 05:05 PM
 
20,757 posts, read 13,756,075 times
Reputation: 14414
Yes, white flight is still very much a problem in the United States today. However it is often more cleverly disguised as an economic issue than race. That is areas are zoned for housing on large lots, forbid apartment buildings/multifamily housing, have high taxes, etc.... All either out of design or intent keep *ahem* certain persons out.

Not to fear Obama and his former (Shaun Donovan) and current head of HUD have something new for the suburbs. HUD is going to *BUST* the suburbs by using the Fair Housing Act and whatever else they can.

How Rob Astorino lost millions in federal aid for Westchester - The New York WorldThe New York World

Progressive liberal Democrats *know* they lost more than they gained with the Civil Rights Act was passed. Whites simply packed up and moved when areas became too dark for their tastes.

What HUD and the Democrats/Liberals now want to do is bust the suburbs by forcing them to build "affordable" housing "apartments, townhouses, etc....) so that minorities can take advantage of the benefits the high tax base in such areas often provide. Things like excellent schools, healthcare, public services, etc....

Robert Astorino: Washington's 'Fair Housing' Assault on Local Zoning - WSJ

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-of-education/

Last edited by BugsyPal; 12-28-2014 at 05:19 PM.. Reason: content added
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Old 12-28-2014, 05:10 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,967,271 times
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Eh. Whites can want affordable housing, too. Never thought of any racial component until you added it there.
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Old 12-28-2014, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Cambridge, MA
4,749 posts, read 11,366,482 times
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Over 100 posts before one from an Obama-phobe hit - what a refreshing change!
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Old 12-28-2014, 06:07 PM
 
Location: West of Louisiana, East of New Mexico
2,535 posts, read 2,027,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
Though sometimes you have the same issues if poor whites move in it seems that the criminal behavior is missing and they make attempts to fit in.

One of the homes in our neighborhood rented to a family who has moved in a bunch of relatives, garbage always overflowing, mattress and busted toys in the yard. However, there doesn't seem to be drug dealing going on. No shootings or stabbings. When the neighbors and landlord asked them to pick the place up, they did.

They want to raise their kids in a nice neighborhood and are willing to conform to community standards once they realized what they were.

Another home rented to a black mother and her kids have toys strewn about the front yard, always a bunch of "friends" coming and going. They told the neighbors and the landord to mind their own business when asked to clean up their act. Called the neighbors a bunch of racist, nosy busy bodies.

Some of it is income. But some of it is attitude and behavior.

No, the poor whites would behave in the same manner.

The only reason why it's hard to envision poor whites acting the same as poor black/Latino's is visibility. Poor whites tend to live in small towns and rural areas. Their problems aren't as visible to most of America. Local law enforcement is primarily comprised of white males from working class and middle class backgrounds. The policing in these small, white towns is akin to the inmates running the asylum. If you put those same poor whites in a large urban area and had a bevy of black/Latino officers ACTIVELY AND VIGOROUSLY policing them, the results would be the same.

White people do not have an inherent advantage in character and morals. Given the same tools, advantages and disadvantages, people behave more or less the same. Asian and African immigrants are often cited as exemplary but they are also the most highly motivated members of their society. If you put hardworking, highly motivated white, black or Latino Americans in a different country, they'd probably exceed the average person as well.
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Old 12-28-2014, 07:11 PM
chh chh started this thread
 
Location: West Michigan
418 posts, read 495,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgn2013 View Post
No, the poor whites would behave in the same manner.

The only reason why it's hard to envision poor whites acting the same as poor black/Latino's is visibility. Poor whites tend to live in small towns and rural areas. Their problems aren't as visible to most of America. Local law enforcement is primarily comprised of white males from working class and middle class backgrounds. The policing in these small, white towns is akin to the inmates running the asylum. If you put those same poor whites in a large urban area and had a bevy of black/Latino officers ACTIVELY AND VIGOROUSLY policing them, the results would be the same.

White people do not have an inherent advantage in character and morals. Given the same tools, advantages and disadvantages, people behave more or less the same. Asian and African immigrants are often cited as exemplary but they are also the most highly motivated members of their society. If you put hardworking, highly motivated white, black or Latino Americans in a different country, they'd probably exceed the average person as well.
For sure. I don't think blacks are so much more evil than whites that they just feel like murdering more people. Rural areas aren't very dense, of course there wouldn't be as many murders per capita there.
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Old 12-28-2014, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Caribou, Me.
5,494 posts, read 3,912,875 times
Reputation: 4052
Quote:
Originally Posted by goyguy View Post
Over 100 posts before one from an Obama-phobe hit - what a refreshing change!
One would have to be quite blinded by their filters to not accept that Obama absolutely LOATHES the idea of white flight. He has tasked HUD with finding a way to disrupt this process.
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Old 12-28-2014, 11:30 PM
 
556 posts, read 469,710 times
Reputation: 760
At least with respect to Chicago, the answer to the title of the thread is yes, look at the change in Chicago's south suburbs over the last 20 years. The African American population is no longer increasing in the Chicago area, but African Americans are still moving to the south suburbs from the city. Others are moving back to the south.
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Old 12-29-2014, 12:46 AM
 
Location: Westchester County, NY -> Pinellas County, FL -> Dutchess County, NY -> Denver?
348 posts, read 358,882 times
Reputation: 339
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Yes, white flight is still very much a problem in the United States today. However it is often more cleverly disguised as an economic issue than race. That is areas are zoned for housing on large lots, forbid apartment buildings/multifamily housing, have high taxes, etc.... All either out of design or intent keep *ahem* certain persons out.

Not to fear Obama and his former (Shaun Donovan) and current head of HUD have something new for the suburbs. HUD is going to *BUST* the suburbs by using the Fair Housing Act and whatever else they can.

How Rob Astorino lost millions in federal aid for Westchester - The New York WorldThe New York World

Progressive liberal Democrats *know* they lost more than they gained with the Civil Rights Act was passed. Whites simply packed up and moved when areas became too dark for their tastes.

What HUD and the Democrats/Liberals now want to do is bust the suburbs by forcing them to build "affordable" housing "apartments, townhouses, etc....) so that minorities can take advantage of the benefits the high tax base in such areas often provide. Things like excellent schools, healthcare, public services, etc....

Robert Astorino: Washington's 'Fair Housing' Assault on Local Zoning - WSJ

Housing segregation is holding back the promise of Brown v. Board of Education - The Washington Post

People pay big bucks to keep things the way they like it. Yonkers, NY is a poster child of white flight. I still can't believe we spent 10 years living there.
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